Featured The Irrefutable Sabbath Facts

Since the Sabbath was made for Israel as a sign of the covenant, you are the one with "the man-made tradition" of sabbath keeping. It was never given to Gentiles. See Exodus 31.

Here are the actual words of Moody:

 

Sadly - that is yet another example of your acrimony and vitriol being passed off as errr.. umm... (not sure what you want us to imagine when you do that...)

Hopefully you will learn the difference over time.

No you have yet to point to any single fact as compared to my words which is not consistent.

Thus we wait for you to produce something other than vitriol.

Still waiting.

Sadly in your "song and dance", what they state above is that "the first day of the week" and the "last day of the week" are the TWO forms of this 4th commandment observance that THEY proclaim God selecting in their own "one day in seven" rewrite of the 4th commandment.

Even YOU admit that the 7th day of the week kept from Eden to the cross is Saturday in one of your earlier less vitriol ridden posts.

"They claim" -- as you quote " It is binding upon all men in all ages.� From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ the Sabbath was the last day of the week,"

All your vitriol is supposedly locked up in the nonsensical notion that we cannot tell that the last day of a 7 day week is the 7th day, and that their OWN CLAIM that this commandment now points to the first day of the week - Sunday - after the cross -- is A CHANGE!!!

How sad that you are so easily moved to vitriol in service of a nonsensical complaint!

The "edit" the language of the 4th commandment claiming that it only says "keep ONE DAY IN seven" and not "The SEVENTH DAY" as is actually found IN The language of the text itself. I complain that they do that as well.

But for you -- noticing their gap between what the text says and what they "wish" it said - is merely another opportunity for factless vitriol on your part. How "instructive".

Even DHK admits that the commandment does NOT say "just pick ONE DAY IN SEVEN" and that they "just so happened to pick the 7th day" from Eden to the Cross.

How sad that your resort to vitriol is not allowing you to pay close attention to the details on this subject.

But even Spurgeon is admitting that the 7th day of the week (turns out that is the same thing as the LAST day of a 7 day week as we all know by now) is the SAME day kept from Eden to the Cross.

Even you admit to this in some of your earlier less-vitriol-ridden posts.

Where DHK differs is that he objects to their statement that all mankind was under obligation to keep the "last day of the week" (the last day of a 7 day week being the seventh day) from Eden to the cross.

But it is one of the FEW points that they make that I agree with - that all mankind was indeed under obligation from Eden to the cross (and I would say beyond) to keep the "last day of the week" just as THEY admit was the case from Eden to the cross.

Sadly your only response to such details is acrimony and vitriol.

A point that both DHK and I notice is a flaw in their claim.

A point where THEY themselves admit - that even so - from Eden to the cross it is the LAST day of a 7 day week (because they cannot bring themselves to quote the actual commandment of God and say SEVENTH day so they rephrase it as "LAST day of the WEEK") that is KEPT in honor of the Commandment that says "THE SEVENTH DAY is the Sabbath" Exodus 20. (Admittedly I am quoting God there - but they also refer to that text in their own PROOFS list).

I do not find either "saturday" or "sunday" in their text but they are as you point out careful to avoid the actual wording of God in the actual 4th commandment saying "the SEVENTH day IS the Sabbath" and make it "one day in SEVEN is the Sabbath".

As even you claim that this selection of the VERY DAY is done by God Himself - being the "last day of the week" from Eden to the Cross -

A point you make by saying "THEY DO NOT RESTRICT THE SABBATH LAW TO ANY DAY OF THE WEEK but leave it to God to apply it as He pleases and so do I. "

And then end your own statement with "more acrimony and vitriol" -- "how unexpected".

Sadly in your all-vitriol solution to this topic - you insert wild fictions about the "SDA wording of the fourth commandment" to refer to the fact that we actually QUOTE the 4th commandment and they do not. For it says "The SEVENTH day IS THE Sabbath". (A point that even DHK knows is not an SDA wording - but rather the actual language of the 4th commandment).

And apparently you now admit that the actual wording of the commandment is something they are careful to avoid so that you can claim that the actual wording found IN Ex 20 is the "SDA ... wording of the Commandment".

How sad that as you declare your own flaws - you can "ignore the inconvenient details" by covering it over with acrimony and vitriol.

Why not stick with the actual details "in the text" of both the Bible and the Baptist Confession of Faith - and leave your insults as a separate obligatory post?

in Christ,

Bob

 

1. You cannot blame ME for your opposition to what Moody said about his OWN beliefs.

2. You cannot blame ME for the fact that Moody specifically singles out your own solution to the Sabbath problem - to condemn.


I think this is the part where you struggle with the topic. No wonder it leads you to the nonsensical solution of claiming that Baptist Board rules themselves declares the mere verbatim QUOTE of Moody to be a violation of the "language rules" - when Moody is found to say something that You claim is Wrong for "MOODY" to "EXPRESS HIMSELF" in that way.!! That is an example of the extreme to which a position of error can lead someone. It is outright admitting that the logic in your argument has failed. Obviously in my discussions with everyone else on this topic in venues you do not control -that sort of nonsense is not available to them as an out, so they will need to deal with the actual details of the topic.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Each time I say "SUNDAY" -- you come back with a nonsensical "How dare you claim they keep SATURDAY" -- how many times do you intend to make stuff up like that --- while quoting my own post claiming the opposite of what you are trying to claim for me?????

Are you following your own logic at that point?

I complain dozens and dozens of times that these documents are trying to apply the authority of the 4th commandment to Sunday keeping (a point that is undeniable and irrefutable) to which you innexplicably respond with vitriol and acrimony claiming I am a liar -- and that I am somehow supporting Sunday-Sabbath in my strong objection to it.

When I point out the glaring flaw in that knee-jerk resort to vitriol and abuse - you respond with "then don't quote them to me" as if I am to blame for your own lapse in logic and judgment????

What is the thinking there?

How is that an answer to t:jesus:he point above????

The lack of logic in that statement is obvious to all.

You first state your strong objection to what Moody actually said.

Then you claim it is "deceptive" for me to QUOTE HIM -- in those areas where what he actually said is something YOU ADMIT you do not agree with.

Does that logic fly with even you?? much less anyone else on this board??

Really ???

You say you are "NOT a Sabbath keeper" and Biblicist says that since they claim to edit/reword the Sabbath to "one day in seven" that HE IS a Sabbath keeper.

I have never see YOU claim that the wording in the 4th commandment agrees with / tolerates/ allows-for "any day in seven" as all the 4th commandment ever required - yet you end with the wild notion that the two of you are in agreement with D.L Moody's (one day in SEVEN) view of the Sabbath commandment which even HE admits applies to all mankind from Eden.!!!

I guess a lot of vitriol and acrimony can be "expected" for noticing that "detail" as "once again" you either blame me for your own lapse of logic and acrimony or blame me for what Moody said or blame me for the fact that the wording IN THE 4th commandment does not say "one day in seven" as you pretend to AGREE with Biblicist and Moody "in conclusion", on the very details I keep pointing out.

Or is this where you resort to accusing me of promoting Sunday as a valid form of Sabbath keeping when Moody or Spurgeon recommend it (again) ?????

in Christ,

Bob

 

Moody doesn't keep the Sabbath. If we agree on that Bob, why on earth would you have ever brought Moody into this discussion in the first place. His beliefs are similar to mine, not yours. We worship on Sunday. He is mistaken in calling the Sabbath Sunday, and therefore doesn't keep the Sabbath.
(You don't either as I have pointed out. Odd how you never have answered that post)

You don't follow your own logic. If you did, Moody would never be in this discussion from day one, would he?

You are a hypocrite. You didn't complain about them at all. You tried to use them to your own justification--as in "see, your own baptist brethren believe in keeping the Sabbath...it is an official Baptist doctrine in most of your circles." That was your intent. Now that it has backfired you are running the opposite direction.

You didn't point out any glaring flaw. You pointed out your own hypocrisy by using Baptist material and trying to justify belief in the Sabbath. It didn't work. Now you are trying to justify what you did. What you did was deceptive and hypocritical. As far as Moody was concerned it was slanderous.

I did quote him. Don't you pay attention?
1. He urges people to come to church faithfully on Sunday
(But we know that Sunday is the first day of the week and not the Sabbath), albeit Moody defines Sunday as the Sabbath; this is where he is wrong.
2. He says that he takes his rest (one day in seven), on Saturday because his work is in preaching, and Sunday is when he works the hardest. He doesn't keep "His" sabbath, and he really doesn't keep "yours." He believes that the sabbath is a day of rest, and day of rest, but preferably that day that can be used to worship God.
3. Thus you have used him, and deceptively so to try to justify your opinion. You are wrong.

He defines sabbath differently than I do. The dictionary allows it. He defines sabbath along the lines that Moody does. You don't.

I am in agreement with him in principle--the principle that he sets forth that we encourage all our members to be in church, in the services on Sundays. I don't need to call it the sabbath to agree with that principle.

The "sabbath" was given to Israel, and only Israel, as a sign of the covenant. It seems one would learn that from Scripture. Study Exodus 31.

The principle of one in seven comes from Genesis. But in Genesis there is no command to keep the Sabbath. The only command to keep the Sabbath is given to the Israelites.

Why would I quote them. I quote Scripture but you don't pay attention.
The Scripture is specific regarding the Sabbath. It was given only to Israel.

 

You last all-vitriol post - of no facts actually quoted - .... noted.

However we can all happily note that you claim agreement with DHK. For example DHK freely admits that there is no such thing as the 4th commandment watered down to say "one day in 7" - but rather it is "the SEVENTH day is the SABBATH" (God's Word not mine) and that those who claim they can water it down to observe it as "one day in seven" are not at all telling the truth!

So as I said to DHK

To that specific "SEVENTH day is the Sabbath" vs the wild fiction of "one day in seven is the Sabbath commandment"

Your response is...

This is "yet another example" of why you are avoiding "the details" in this discussion. Who can blame you when you jump in with responses like that - to a point about your view being dead wrong and DHK even insisting that your "one day in seven" fiction it totally wrong for the 4th commandment.

How can you keep doing this and be happy with it???

I point this out to DHK

DHK responds

Hmmm - then How does GOD define the Sabbath? Fourth commandment anyone? Oh no wait YOU claim that to quote the WORDS of God's 4th commandment is to give the SDA WORDING of it. Are you still sticking with that failed solution?

Apparently DHK is willing to admit (given the proper encouragement) that the 4th commandment IS the Sabbath Commandment and GOD DOES define it as "the seventh day is the Sabbath" IN HIS COMMANDMENT. You are not willing to do that.

DHK calls this "agreement" and so apparently do you. All the while self-conflictedly claiming you do not define the Sabbath the same way!

Hello!! Do you really think that name-calling and vitriol will solve the problem you have with those conflicted statements?
in Christ,

Bob

 

We both know that "just keep one day in seven" is no more found in Genesis 1 than is the fiction "just pick a god and worship him - as long as you only pick one".

How can you sell out to the 4th commandment being nothing more than "pick one day in seven"??

If that were true you would have to join Moody in claiming you are a die hard Sabbath keeper since that is your non-Bible definition for Sabbath.

How can you claim NOT to even be keeping "one day in seven" in your war against God's 4th commandment?

in Christ,

Bob

 

I have said many dozens of times that I object to their fluid Sabbath that points to the 7th day of the week from Eden to the cross but is then changed to point to the first day of the week after the cross.

I repeatedly point out that the point I DO agree with - is their insistence that the FOURTH COMMANDMENT (as you find in Moody's sermon) is STILL binding on all mankind and was binding from Eden on all mankind.

How many dozens of more times would I need to post this detail -- before you admitted to this being my position?

Sadly for your own argument - you claim that the WORDING of the Sabbath commandment should be "one day in seven" -- instead of "The SEVENTH day is the Sabbath" (4ht commandment) is just the SDA WORDING - that you are so at war against.

Is this your way out of that???

IS DHK going to jump in and claim that "The Seventh day is the Sabbath" is not the Bible in Exodus 20 but is the "SDA Wording" not God's Wording - and that it should be "one day in seven" to fit man made tradition??

in Christ,

Bob

 

Each time I say "SUNDAY" -- you come back with a nonsensical "How dare you claim they keep SATURDAY" -- how many times do you intend to make stuff up like that --- while quoting my own post claiming the opposite of what you are trying to claim for me?????

Are you following your own logic at that point?

I complain dozens and dozens of times that these documents are trying to apply the authority of the 4th commandment to Sunday keeping (a point that is undeniable and irrefutable) to which you innexplicably respond with vitriol and acrimony claiming I am a liar -- and that I am somehow supporting Sunday-Sabbath in my strong objection to it.

When I point out the glaring flaw in that knee-jerk resort to vitriol and abuse - you respond with "then don't quote them to me" as if I am to blame for your own lapse in logic and judgment????

What is the thinking there?

How is that an answer to the point above????

Apparently you are addressing yourself - since you sent me a copy of my own post where I DID complain about their bending Sabbath commandment and apply it to Sunday - and claimed this as your shining example of a "language violation" for the Baptist Board.

How can you be happy with those tactics?

You can go back as far as you like - for many months if not more I have been stating the points where I agree and where I differ with the Baptist Confession of Faith - and for many months I have been complaining about their bending the Sabbath Commandment to point it Sunday. Or is this the point where you would like to join Biblicist in denying that the 4th Commandment wording is in fact God's Word of the Sabbath Commandment? (I may need to ask this question a dozen more times to get a response... possibly)

We both know this is true - not sure why you think that "pretending not to notice" is going to fly.

Your lack of interest in the actual facts there is glaring!

As for D.L Moody - I pointed out above that when I QUOTE him you argue that HIS WORDS are mine and how dare I claim WHAT HE CLAIMED about his own view of the Sabbath. But I have always said that I agree that the 4th commandment is still binding - but I do NOT agree that it can be applied to Sunday.

We all knew that. Not sure why you are intent on making stuff up as if I am going to go for that.

hence my complaint about it.

Not sure what part of this is not registering.

Agree with 4th commandment still binding.

Object to bending 4th commandment to point it to Sunday.

This is just not that hard.

Why keep making stuff up??

in Christ,

Bob

 

I agree with Moody, and especially the Bible, a fact that even science bears out, that man needs one day out of seven in his work week to rest. Moody believed this. So do I. Moody worked on Sunday and "chose" to rest on Saturday but was not bound to. He could have chose another day.

It is a principle taught not a commandment kept. If you realize that you would be better off.
I suggest you try to keep the Sabbath in a biblical manner like I suggest and see how far you get. You, for some reason, don't want to respond to that post. Why is that?

 

1. Do you both claim that "The Seventh day is the Sabbath" as GOD stated in in Ex 20 -- is merely the "SDA Wording" of the commandment?

2. Do you both claim that it is ok to claim that the 4th commandment is STILL binding on Christians today as long as it is bent to NO longer say "the SEVENTH day is the Sabbath"??

I would like to know how solid your agreement is on this one single point.

I have some examples of your posts where you make it appear that you in fact contradict each other on these basic points - but if you now say you are in agreement on the 4th commandment please just affirm the two points above - and I will take that as DHK's new position. (I think Biblicist may have been settled on the two points above all along).

in Christ,

Bob

 

sabbath was iven to God for his people of isreal, the Jews, to be required to be observed by them under Old covenant, so to have what you want in this, you either Must be Jewish Chrsitian who has chosen to observe it still, or still stuck under Old Coveneant via the Law realationship with God!

Which one is it?

 

understand what you are saying here, but the truth is that the SDA wants to have us in the Church Age placed back under the sabbath defined for Isreal proper itself, and that IS NOT what God did to us under the New Covenant, as we now do observe anfd worship the Lord on the "lord's day!"

 

D.L. Moody claimed neither one.

Spurgeon claimed neither one.

The Baptist Confession of Faith claims "neither one"

I claim "neither one".

They all claim that the Sabbath commandment given by God and written in Exodus 20 -- applied from Eden to the cross for all mankind.

They all claim that the day was "the last day of the week" - the "seven day week" making it Saturday - "The seventh day" as Exodus 20:8-11 states it.

When you try to take a swipe at SDAs using such a broad brush you condemn a good portion of the Baptist church.

Be more selective in your attacks on SDAs.

in Christ,

Bob