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The Monergist View of the Human Will

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed, Oct 1, 2018.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Freely to the Fathers will. It is our example

    Conversely, Did Satan have a free will to sin?
     
    #61 loDebar, Oct 2, 2018
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You do know that since you have opposed calvie doctrine you now must be destroyed.
     
    #62 Revmitchell, Oct 2, 2018
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  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    That is the prevalent rule on this board
     
    #63 loDebar, Oct 2, 2018
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  4. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Actually, I have to amend my earlier answer to your post. The reason is your use of the word "intervene". See post #58 for my thoughts on the word "intervene".
     
    #64 Reformed, Oct 2, 2018
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I know a famous Monergist who believed that.
     
    #65 Reynolds, Oct 2, 2018
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You said the synergists believe the Gospel call is made and the sinner has the opportunity to accept or reject it. Does the monergists not believe this?

    As for God's intervention, I spoke with someone on this board some years ago who was adamant that the "elect" need not exercise faith to be saved. He stated that if the elect person never heard the gospel and never had faith, they would still go to heaven.

    From what you have stated, I suspect you have more common belief with most synergists than you do with that person.
     
    #66 canadyjd, Oct 2, 2018
  7. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    @tyndale1946 believes that.
     
    #67 JonShaff, Oct 2, 2018
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  8. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    No.
    Faith is a gift from God (Eph. 2:8-9). While the unregenerate sinner does not have faith, regeneration produces it. The individual then exercises that faith by believing.

    I would not put a wager on that.
     
    #68 Reformed, Oct 2, 2018
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  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I want to be sure I understand you. You are saying that monergists do not believe the Gospel is presented and the sinner has the opportunity to accept or reject?

    Also, are you saying that the "elect" do not have to have faith in Jesus to be saved?
     
    #69 canadyjd, Oct 2, 2018
  10. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Correct.
     
    #70 Reformed, Oct 2, 2018
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Ok, could you explain Paul's assertion in 1 Cor. that God was well pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe?
     
    #71 canadyjd, Oct 2, 2018
  12. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Sure. First, understand that the Monergist believes in something called the effectual call. The 1689 Second London Baptist of Faith explains it this way:

    10.1 Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

    Passages to consider are Rom. 8:30; Eph. 1:10; 2 Thes. 2:13-14; Eph. 2:1-6 et. al.

    The verse you did not fully reference is 1 Cor. 1:21:

    1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

    The Gospel is the means of salvation. God has ordained the preaching of the Gospel as the means (or method) of calling His elect. If you look closely at verses 18-19; 24; 27-28 you will see God's calling clearly revealed. Those that believe the foolishness of the message preached are those whom God has effectually called to eternal life.
     
    #72 Reformed, Oct 2, 2018
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  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Ok, that is clear. The gospel is preached and the person accepts or rejects, right?

    Or, do you believe the Gospel is only for the elect?
     
    #73 canadyjd, Oct 2, 2018
  14. Rockson

    Rockson Active Member

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    And this poster misses the whole point of Rom 1: 18-20 for the the whole conclusion of the text is why men are without excuse. Men see all of creation and that alone God says should be the thing that sparks at least a seeking of God. Instead of seeking God these particular groups would suppress the truth which they were NOT FORCED to do. If they were they'd HAVE EXCUSE.
     
    #74 Rockson, Oct 2, 2018
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Later in the 1 Cor passage, Paul tells us of a two-fold purpose of the gospel preached. To some, it brings life. To others, it brings death.

    The gospel is preached and sinners accept or reject.
     
    #75 canadyjd, Oct 2, 2018
  16. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Slow your roll, hombre. The Gospel is preached to all, although there are some people on the Monergist side who fall into the error of Hyper-Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinism has no textbook definition, but it is commonly accused of teaching that the Gospel is only to be preached to the Elect. One problem with that view is none of us possess perfect knowledge. Only God knows who is part of the Elect. Ergo, the Gospel is to be proclaimed to all. The real question to ask is whether all can believe the Gospel. The answer to that is a resounding "No!". Only the Elect will believe. But once again, since we do not know who the elect are, we plead with all men to be reconciled to God (2 Cor. 5:20).
     
    #76 Reformed, Oct 2, 2018
  17. Rockson

    Rockson Active Member

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    Problem is you don't prove the will of a person is in bondage yes even quoting very true verses that the unsaved are slaves to sin. People in bondage by their free will may want deliverance and want change.
     
    #77 Rockson, Oct 2, 2018
  18. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I guess we will just have to disagree. Have a pleasant evening.
     
    #78 Reformed, Oct 2, 2018
  19. Rockson

    Rockson Active Member

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    And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Acts 2:40
     
    #79 Rockson, Oct 2, 2018
  20. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Whenever the topic starts to turn towards predestination, election, and the free offer of the gospel, I like to point people to C.H. Spurgeon's work, "A Defense of Calvinism". While I am able to string together a few sentences on occasion, I am a poor wordsmith when compared to the "Prince of Preachers". I highly recommend you read Spurgeon's work for a better treatment on this topic than I am able to offer.
     
    #80 Reformed, Oct 2, 2018
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