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The nation of Israel is antichrist...

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Daniel David, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. Tim

    Tim New Member

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  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Last I knew there were specific laws in Israel which restricted the free spread of the gospel by Christian missionaries and evangelists.</font>[/QUOTE]I have heard reports that one is not allowed to prosyletize. That is wrong, I will grant that. But to say that there are no restrictions here in America in the age of Political correctness, would be at best naive. And there is tremendous pressure on our elected officials to pass hate speech legistlation which is primarily aimed at, you guessed it, Christianity. I predict the day is coming when it will be against the law to say to someone that anyone who rejects Christ will go to Hell. Heck, I can't even excercise my freedom of speech in a public forum by invoking the very name of Jesus, although the generic God seems to be ok for now (unless Mr. Newdough, the 8th circus court of appeals, and ACLU gets their way). Your attempts to demonize the entire nation of Israel and an entire race of people is really pretty pathetic if you consider that they really are not very different from us.
    Yes, it is a secular government, but it is under heavy pressure from the orthodox portion of it's population. The government has thus officially discouraged the growth of Christianity in Israel.

    I don't see that happening (yet) in the U.S. Regardless of what the ACLU says about nativity scenes and the like, I still have complete freedom to spread the gospel. And I don't send my kids to government-run schools here in the U.S. I have the freedom not to![/QUOTE]

    Are you implying that Israelis are not free to do that very thing? Would you cite your source for this? It is no wonder you seem to be clueless about what our government pays for and endorses to be taught in the public schools.

    I've said nothing that illustrates any hatred toward the nation of Israel or any Jews in particular. That's because I have no hatred toward them.[/QUOTE]

    Your exclusive demonization of Israel as having the spirit of Anti-Christ when every nation in the world shows the same spirit of Anti-Christ (including our own) and your unwillingness to acknowledge as much shows yoour hatred toward Jews and your anti-semitism.

    But on BB if you're not pro-Israel, or if you dare to criticize it's government--somebody is bound to call you antisemetic at least once a month or so.

    In Christ,

    Tim
    [/QUOTE]

    NAH!! I think it is because you are anti-semitic.

    Perhaps you should repent for your hatred and racism against an entire nation and race of people.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Tim,

    This is not true. Christ was first revealed to Adam and Eve in the garden. He is God, remember? Or do you now reject that doctrine?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    http://www.worthyinsights.com/features/support-israel.html
     
  5. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    Last I knew there were specific laws in Israel which restricted the free spread of the gospel by Christian missionaries and evangelists.</font>[/QUOTE]I have heard reports that one is not allowed to prosyletize. That is wrong, I will grant that. But to say that there are no restrictions here in America in the age of Political correctness, would be at best naive. And there is tremendous pressure on our elected officials to pass hate speech legistlation which is primarily aimed at, you guessed it, Christianity. I predict the day is coming when it will be against the law to say to someone that anyone who rejects Christ will go to Hell. Heck, I can't even excercise my freedom of speech in a public forum by invoking the very name of Jesus, although the generic God seems to be ok for now (unless Mr. Newdough, the 8th circus court of appeals, and ACLU gets their way). Your attempts to demonize the entire nation of Israel and an entire race of people is really pretty pathetic if you consider that they really are not very different from us.
    Yes, it is a secular government, but it is under heavy pressure from the orthodox portion of it's population. The government has thus officially discouraged the growth of Christianity in Israel.

    I don't see that happening (yet) in the U.S. Regardless of what the ACLU says about nativity scenes and the like, I still have complete freedom to spread the gospel. And I don't send my kids to government-run schools here in the U.S. I have the freedom not to!</font>[/QUOTE]Are you implying that Israelis are not free to do that very thing? Would you cite your source for this? It is no wonder you seem to be clueless about what our government pays for and endorses to be taught in the public schools.

    I've said nothing that illustrates any hatred toward the nation of Israel or any Jews in particular. That's because I have no hatred toward them.[/QUOTE]

    Your exclusive demonization of Israel as having the spirit of Anti-Christ when every nation in the world shows the same spirit of Anti-Christ (including our own) and your unwillingness to acknowledge as much shows yoour hatred toward Jews and your anti-semitism.

    But on BB if you're not pro-Israel, or if you dare to criticize it's government--somebody is bound to call you antisemetic at least once a month or so.

    In Christ,

    Tim
    [/QUOTE]

    NAH!! I think it is because you are anti-semitic.

    Perhaps you should repent for your hatred and racism against an entire nation and race of people.

    Joseph Botwinick
    [/QUOTE]

    JB,

    Surely you don't equate Israeli governmental restrictions against prosyletizing with the pressure exerted by the PC crowd here in the US?
    Both share the spirit of antichrist, but only one has official government power behind it to prevent the free spread of the gospel.

    And who demonized a "race" of people? I simply demonized a false religion--Judaism. And by the way, so did the apostle John. And I demonized governments (not exclusively Israel's) which set themselves against the spread of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    And lastly, the ones who are clueless about what's being taught in public schools are more likely those who allow their kids to stay in them!

    Oh, and I guess I'd better tell that Jewish lady that came to my Bible study recently how much I actually hate Jews--so she'll know better than to come back and hear the gospel again.

    Relax JB, we're really on the same team.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I support Israel for political, and not theological reasons.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Psalm 2

    1 ¶ Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
    3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
    4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
    5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
    6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
    7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
    8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
    10 ¶ Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
    12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    What, pray tell, is the political benefit of supporting Israel?
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    They are fighting against terrorists. I support that.

    They are a democracy. I support that.

    They are mostly in the right when it comes to the conflict with the Palestinians. I support them because of that.

    I also have friends who live there. That isn't really political, I guess. It is probably more emotional. I am a Jew myself. That is probably also a bit more emotional than it is political.

    When it comes down to it and when the truth is fully revealed, I think we will learn that Israel and America have both been fighting the same enemies all along because I believe that the terrorists groups are all related; i.e. Hamas, Al Aqsa Martyr Brigade, Islamic Jihad, Al Quaeda, etc...

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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  11. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    LadyEagle, the church is not grafted into Israel. That doesn't make sense. You have God cutting off Israel to make the church part of Israel? Wouldn't that mean we are also cut off? Think about that post.
     
  12. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Pretty much what Joseph has been saying....with just one thing to add: I think that the reason why the likes of Tim (and I hope he will forgive me for putting words into his mouth) are seen to 'single out' Israel as being 'non-Christian' (I hesitate to use the word 'anti-Christ', which is unhelpfully polemic in nature and has been so over-used that we are in danger of devaluing it in meaning)is because there seem to be so many evangelicals who are vehemently pro-Israel and the need is felt to redress the balance a bit. So, Israel has already been 'singled-out' in debate - by the pro-crowd. Is that fair comment, Tim?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Matt,

    I certainly understand what you are saying. However, I don't think we have to be dishonest and anti-semitic in our remarks to make that balance. Israel is not perfect by a long shot. But to single them out for condemnation as the foremost evil in the world or as Anti-Christs when there is just as much evil and spirit of anti-Christ right here in America, is anti-Semitic.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Agreed 100%

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  15. Kiffin

    Kiffin New Member

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    I support Israel for political reasons and not theological reasons also. To call the nation of Israel anti Christ implies there are some governments or nations that are pro Christ. The world in general is not on the side of Christ and modern day Israel is primarily a secular country.

    That being said, it is not incorect to say Judaism like Islam is a false religion. Modern day Judaism is a false imitation of Mosaic Judaism which was fulfilled at the cross. Jesus even refers to their synogogues as synagogues of Satan (Rev. 2:9) in the Book of Revelation. Judaism like Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism is a anti Christ religion because of it's rejection and blasphemy against Christ (Anyone read what the Talmud says about Jesus?) That does not mean God has forgotten them. I believe a awakening will occur someday among the Jews (Rom. 11:26-31)in which they will embrace Christ but sadly that day is not here but we should pray that God's original chosen people will be enlightened by the Holy Spirit and come to Christ and be joined with Him in the Church.
     
  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    That is where I stand as well. The problem with many is they support Israel "no matter what" for theological reasons. Modern Israel today is made up mostly of atheist and agnostics.

    I believe they have no eschatological significance, but that doesn't make one anti-semetic or anti-Israel. I consider Israel an important political allie in the Middle_East. I agree they are no more anti-christ than most of the rest of the world. The problem with people like LadyEagle is they cannot separate religious Israel and political Israel. It' either all or nothing.
     
  17. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    Matt,

    You not only put words in my mouth--you read my thoughts!

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  18. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    That is where I stand as well. The problem with many is they support Israel "no matter what" for theological reasons. Modern Israel today is made up mostly of atheist and agnostics.

    I believe they have no eschatological significance, but that doesn't make one anti-semetic or anti-Israel. I consider Israel an important political allie in the Middle_East. I agree they are no more anti-christ than most of the rest of the world. The problem with people like LadyEagle is they cannot separate religious Israel and political Israel. It' either all or nothing.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I basically agree with this too.

    When this subject came up recently at my church--I dared to suggest that there are also some Christian Palestinian brothers who are caught in the middle of this conflict that deserve our prayers. One man replied, "If they're Palestians, they're probably not real Christians."

    It's that kind of pro-Israel imbalance that is pretty embarrassing in the American Church.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Bigotry toward anyone or any group, such as that man exhibited, is unChristian. Period. Perhaps he needs to examine his own standing with God before he attempts to judge someone else's.
     
  20. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Well, we can say for certain that Israel is full of Jews that are not saved, as they continue to this day to reject their savior.

    Modern day Jews do not receive blessings from God. They are only under his wrath.

    You know, you would have thought that Jesus walked in a different land and preached to different people than he did with the way people exhalt the unbelieving Jews.
     
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