I am as strong a baptist as they come. A landmarkist as well. I believe that the original baptist churches are the nearest to New Testament churches.
Having said that, I do not frown upon those whose doctrines differ to mine. The Church of England sprinkles infants. It is their biblical solution to original sin. They quote scripture in support. They also immerse adults if that is so chosen. Presbyterian and Reformed churches sprinkle children in keeping with the Abrahamic Covenant. That is biblical to them.
I think we must be careful in designating where we stand in the class category. Oh, good baptist churches had female pastors as far back as Spurgeon's era, and a number of Baptist organizations ordain women to-day.
Cheers,
Jim
The only reason I am a Baptist
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by stilllearning, Dec 20, 2009.
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Good morning C4K
I said......
This is not that much of provocative statement: (Here in the USA)!
It’s rather common knowledge. -
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Hello Jim1999
Interesting response.
You listed a lot of “unbiblical” practices Churches have, and said......
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You also said........
1 Timothy 2:12
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”
1 Timothy 3:2
“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;”
1 Corinthians 11:3
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the
woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.”
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1 Samuel 17:29
“And David said, What have I now done? [Is there] not a cause?”
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Hi Zenas
You said........
Nobody copied anything or recorded hearsay;
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, recorded what God gave them to say.(Every word!) -
I myself lean towards the idea that John was written by either the Apostle John, or a follower of the Apostle John. In regardds to the synoptic Gospels, I beleive they were three noneyewitnesses who either conducted interviews with, or were well acquainted with, the same group of sources, which would explain why the three Gospels are synoptic.
My favorite Gospel is Luke's Gospel, which was actually a private letter written by a physician to close friend who was apparantly also a physician. Since it's a private letter, Luke's writing is more intimate, and I personally like that. -
The main reason I'm a Baptist is because the only person who cared enough about my soul to ask if I was saved (although I had no idea what that meant) was a Baptist. Are they the closest to the truth? I've always thought so, but I can't prove it.
I do know that Baptists condemned me when I divorced my adulterous wife. Of course, the only one who knew the truth about why I did was the pastor. I figured it wasn't anyone else's business--including the deacons who condemned me and wanted me removed as the song leader. -
Hi Jon-Marc
Sorry to hear about your bad experience with that deacon:
(There is nothing in the Bible, that says you can’t be a song leader!)
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You asked..........
(Note, the 3rd paragraph:)
“What is a “Landmark Baptist”
Just what is a Landmark Baptist? How many Landmark Baptists have been asked this question before while sharing Christ and His Church with someone? The history of Landmarkism is something all Landmarkers need to be familiar with in order to be more effective in witnessing of the cause of Christ. One of the beliefs of Landmark Baptists is the perpetuity, or continual existence, of Christ's true churches since His earthly ministry. Therefore, it only makes sense that Landmark Baptists take some time to study their history to better witness to those they come in contact with as they go out into the world.
The Landmark movement itself is barely one hundred years old, having split from the Southern Baptist Convention in the late 19th Century, and in some areas not until the early 20th century. However, the truths and authority of this movement are literally as old as Christianity. The true churches of God have a history of splitting from other churches that have fallen into error. These errors were deemed to be so far removed from the truth that it necessitated a declaration of non-fellowship. The split of the Landmark Baptists from the Southern Baptists was no different. This split was not sudden, or even within a few years. It came over a period of time as the Southern Baptists gradually caved in to ecumenicalism and false doctrine, while the Landmark Baptists strove to separate themselves so they could effectively maintain the purity of the true church of God. So, what then is a Landmark Baptist? A breakdown of the two words, "Landmark" and "Baptist" will perhaps make things a little more clear. We'll begin with the word "Baptist".
Baptist
Most anyone familiar with "Christianity" knows of the name "Baptist." Baptists have been viewed as a more fundamental denomination within the "Christian" religion, although that is rapidly changing today. One glance in the yellow pages or a Sunday morning spent watching televised religious programs undoubtedly will show that "Baptist" churches are of many different persuasions and hold to many different beliefs. The Baptist movement (by name) is approximately three centuries old. The term "Baptist" is actually a trimmed down version of the term "Ana-baptist", which means to "re-baptize." (The Anabaptists received this name because they practiced believer's baptism and therefore re-baptized all who came to them from the Catholic and Protestant churches, both of whom practiced infant baptism). This trimming down effect was not accomplished by the Baptists themselves, but by their opponents within the Catholic, and later Protestant, churches. These opponents used this term more as a label than as a name. Hatred and intolerance of Baptists was not new, just as the faith the Baptists held to dearly was not new. The Baptists were of the same system of faith and doctrine as their ancestors (i.e. The Anabaptists, the Waldenses, the Albigenses, the Paulicians, the Donatists, the Novatians, the Christians, the Way, the Apostles); the only new thing about them was their name. Although Baptists started out under their new name as true churches, many Baptists have left their origins and fallen away. Now, sadly enough, only a few Baptist groups remain who trace their faith and history back to the days of Christ and His Apostles. As history has shown many times in their past, perhaps Christ's true Anabaptists will again receive a new "label" to distinguish themselves and their doctrines. Whatever happens, we can be certain that God will keep a remnant in the world who will truly, and willfully, purify themselves with the teachings of the primitive church and obey the Covenant God established through His Son.
Landmark
Now on to the word "Landmark." This name began as another scornful term used to describe those who chose to keep with the teachings of their Anabaptist forefathers. However, this time the ones who labeled the Landmarkers came from within the Baptist ranks. The term "Landmark" originally comes from two scriptures--Proverbs 22:28 and Proverbs 23:18....
"...remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set..."
"...remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless..."
This term was used first by J.M. Pendleton in a series of four articles which appeared in The Tennessee Baptist, a paper whose editor was J.R. Graves. Mr. Pendleton's articles later appeared in a pamphlet, An Old Landmark Re-Set. J.M. Pendleton and J.R. Graves disagreed with the Southern Baptists recognition of Pedobaptist, or infant baptising, ministers as Gospel preachers who were allowed to preach from Southern Baptist church pulpits.. To Pendleton and Graves this disgraced and defiled the true churches of God and therefore needed to be halted immediately. The more liberal Southern Baptists, as well as the Pedobaptists, took issue with Graves and Pendleton and labeled these two, as well as others with similar convictions, "Landmarkers" or "Old Landmarkers". A noted meeting in Montgomery, Alabama in 1854, organized to "put the matter to a test" ended in a day long debate between the Landmarkers, the Southern Baptists, and the Pedobaptists who were invited by the liberal Southern Baptists to attend and participate in the "deliberations" at hand.
Soon these contentions expanded to include the Convention system of the Southern Baptists. The Landmarkers took issue with the Convention system, stating that this system took control of missionary efforts and left local churches out of the decisions concerning mission work. Graves and the Landmarkers believed that missionary work fell under the authority the local churches, and not under any convention or other institution. This contention further separated the Southern Baptists and the Landmark Baptists.
The Landmark controversy lasted beyond Graves and Pendleton's lifes. However, it was by then in full force and carried on by worthy men of the faith. One noted Landmarker who carried on the work of Graves and Pendleton was Ben M. Bogard. By the time the controversy was over, the Landmarkers had split from the Southern Baptists in order to hold on to the ancient teachings of the Anabaptists as well as the belief in church perpetuity.
Today you can find Landmark Baptist churches throughout the world. Landmarkers hold on dearly to the distinctive beliefs that set us apart from Christendom. Throughout every century since Christ established His church there have existed assemblies of believers who have held to the ancient landmarks and stood for the faith once for all delivered to the saints.
"We believe that his kingdom has stood unchanged, as firmly as we believe in the divinity of the Son of God, and, when we are forced to surrender the one faith, we can easily give up the other. If Christ has not kept his promise concerning his church to keep it, how can I trust him concerning my salvation? If he has not the power to save his church, he certainly has not the power to save me. For Christians to admit that Christ has not preserved his kingdom unbroken, unmoved, unchanged, and uncorrupted, is to surrender the whole ground to infidelity. I deny that a man is a believer in the Bible who denies this".
--J.R. Graves (from Old Landmarkism, What Is It?)
"The Baptists are the only body of known Christians that have never symbolized with Rome."
--Sir Issac Newton
"Before the rise of Luther and Calvin, there lay secreted in almost all the countries of Europe persons who adhered tenaciously to the principles of modern Dutch Baptists."
--Mosheim (Lutheran)
"It must have already occurred to our readers that the Baptists are the same sect of Christians that were formerly described as Ana-baptists. Indeed this seems to have been their leading principle from the time of Tertullian (Tertullian was born just fifty years after the death of the Apostle John) to the present time."
--Edinburg Cyclopedia (Presbyterian)
quotes taken from "The Trail of Blood . . ." -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Sounds like you've been listening to the history channel way too much. either that or you're a Jesus Seminar fan. I pray you will research on the way you are leaning and see that the truth of the gospels leans the other way. We can trust the synoptic gospels as being divine in origin and that is why they are similar, not because there is some original source document they all copied from. I encourage you to read good authors that have studied the subject well like Craig Evens or Gary Habermas.God bless!! :thumbs: -
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I am a Baptist because I believe it is the best expression of the teachings of the Bible. Of course, today "baptist" can, and often does, mean just about anything. This is tragic. Historically, Baptists have expressed that faith by way of confession. I believe the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith is the best summary of Bible doctrine anywhere.
To those who like to call me a troll, I say to you...Grace and Peace! -
I've been a Baptist for almost 24 years, and recently I have started studying the reformers and I have learned much about the doctrines of grace. One would think I would now lean towards being a Presbyterian but I can't get past their infant baptism and their fondness on alcohol. And I'm still unsure of the limited atonement. I could get carried away here and get way off topic, so I won't.
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