"The Prophecy of Israel"

What about John 1:11-13? It destroys the DNA question.
No, I've never seen the Maury Povich show.

 

Actually, it doesn't mention DNA. And, who is disputing John 1?

 

Ishmael had Abraham's DNA yet lost his covenant seed status when Abraham excommunicated him and Hagar. Any of Isaac's offspring gained covenant seed status through circumcision. And did not belong to Israel without it.

“Any uncircumcised male who has not been circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin will be cut off from his people—he has failed to carry out my requirement.”” (Genesis 17:14) (NET)

Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, thereby cutting off all physical unbelieving Jews from Israel. To whom God grafted in believing gentiles in their place. Only believers in Christ remained.

 

Again, Jesus did NOT abolish one jot or tittle of the law. He FULFILLED all its sacrificial requirements.

How silly! A Jew was required to be circumcised. They didn't walk around on the street with their privates showing. They were BORN Jews, same as they are today; they did NOT become a Jew by being circumcised! Their parents had them circumcised to obey the law.

Q: Whaddya call an uncircumcised Jewish baby?

A: A girl!

 

The Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments. “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread, and he did not drink water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” (Exodus 34:28) (NET)

Jeremiah and Hebrews say the New Covenant replaced them. They no longer serve their original purpose.

““Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord.” (Jeremiah 31:31–32) (NET)

Jewishness is a religion. Embraced through circumcision. When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, nothing remained to make one a biblical Jew, or a member of biblical Israel.

“Any uncircumcised male who has not been circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin will be cut off from his people—he has failed to carry out my requirement.”” (Genesis 17:14) (NET)

 

John 1 trumps DNA. And how do they what Abraham's DNA was?

 

Of course Jesus fulfilled the law, as He said, "The law and the prophets were until John."

 

Assuming that we did then we could trace his DNA, couldn't we? Abraham and Sara's DNA is still there, isn't it? That's what wrong about your preterism--it's not scientific.

 

I am NOT a preterist. Preterism comes from the same evil stable as futurism and that is ROME.

Preterists and futurists are both descendants of ROME.

 

My point was. How do we know which of their DNA was from Abraham? I suppose it could be checked by Arab DNA , the bits that are the same may be from Abraham

 

For once I partly agree with you but don't get excited . Jesus fulfilled the law, so once the law is fulfilled, no need of sacrifices, as Christ is the sacrifice once and for ALL.
Back in the days of the Greek empires, when Jews wanted to take part in the Greek games, they had operations to make it appear that they were uncircumcised.

 

Okay, sorry.

On the issue of DNA, although we technically do not know at this time which DNA came from Abraham and Sara, it would be theoretically possible to know this if we had verified samples. On that basis, we could easily prove that there are people alive today who have DNA proving that they are descended from Abraham and Sara. This is the scientific oversight in your point of view. It already has been proven that everyone alive today descended from one couple, Adam and Eve. And we know from Scripture that we also all share the common ancestor of Noah and his wife, whom the Jews say was named Emzara, meaning mother of Sara. (I myself thought Mrs. Noah was named Joan of Arc. :Redface)

 

Oh, how silly!

Jews are Jews by birth, circumcised or not. And, I was circumcised shortly after birth,(as were/are most American male babies) but I'm not a Jew.

And again, Jesus did NOT abolish one jot or tittle of the law. he said that himself. What He did was to FULFILL all its sacrificial requirements.

Abe did NOT "excommunicate" Hagar & Ish. He sent them from his household because the older ish bullied the younger Ike, & Sarah was resentful of Hagar because she had borne Abe's child.

remember, Abe prayed to God to bless Ish as well as Ike, and God fulfilled his prayer by making Ish the founder of several nations which are rich today due to oil. But even before this, God passed the birthright to Isaac.

the birthright was passed from Ike to Jacob, aided by esau's selling the birthright to Jake, but GOD intended for Jake to have it anyway.

And Jake, at God's direction, passed it on to Joseph. (At the same time, he passed the scepter that is, rulership, to Judah.)

We know the rulership was passed to judah's descendants, specifically thru david, whose dynasty God established FOREVER, to eventually be ruled by Jesus, who will rule to forever under His Father.

Now, the birthright, that is, great material wealth, was NOT made manifest in Abe, Ike, Jake, or Joe, who were all independently wealthy, nor was it fulfilled in ancient Israel. So, where is it TODAY?

Yes, circimcision was a human mark of the Jewish male, but it's not limited to Jews, nor does it make one a Jew. A Jew is a descendant of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi, regardless of the status of his privates. (Not to mention the Jewish WOMEN!)

 

But, after Abraham's seed (who is Christ, according to Paul) was born, the physical lineage served no further purpose. The king who would forever sit on David's Throne had arrived. And God removed the State in 70 AD, leaving only the Church of believers who accepted Christ.

Nothing remains to make one a physical member of Israel, who is Abraham's covenant seed, since Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. Remember, even when circumcision meant something, any not having it were cut off. And God cut off all physical unbelieving Jews from Israel when he abolished circumcision (Romans 11).

 

This think smacks of junk theology/science, like some holding to Gentiles getting jewish blood in our veins once saved!
Or how the 144000 in revelations, Gentiles with members from Jewish tribes?

 

There are still @ jews in the world, lost, physical descendants of Abraham, and saved, His spiritual remnant!

 

Circumcision made one a member of Abraham's covenant seed. Any not circumcised remained a gentile by default. So in this sense, Christ abolished Abraham's covenant seed when he removed circumcision. Abraham's seed is Christ and those united to him by faith. Paul used himself as an example of one broken off but reattached by faith in Christ for the father's sakes.

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:” (Acts 17:26–27) (KJV 1900)

 

People are either by genetics jewish or gentile!

 

This is not true. Most of the Middle East is related to Abraham. And those in Issac only became his covenant seed through circumcision. Because Jewishness is a religion, not a matter of birth. If any were not circumcised, they ended up like Esau or any other family member beyond the covenant.

 

Jesus was a Jew at His birth, correct?