Featured The Role of Women in the Baptist Faith

You're just repeating yourself, please answer the question: Which word used by Paul means "wife"?

 

I see that you are cherry picking one particular translation, this translation would seem to create contradictions in other passages of the bible, ironically there is not a single other passage that could possibly be construed to give requirements for women deacons.

KJV Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

NKJV Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

ESV Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.

NLT In the same way, their wives must be respected and must not slander others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.

HCSB Wives, too, must be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything.

NET Likewise also their wives must be dignified, not slanderous, temperate, faithful in every respect.

 

Paul was not saying women can be Deacons, but wjhat qualities the male Deacons wives should have!

 

"Note that 1 Timothy 3:8-13 moves from the qualifications of overseers (1 Tim. 3:1-7) to the qualifications of deacons. It does so in these words: “Deacons likewise must be men of dignity” (1 Tim. 3:8, NASB 1995). The Greek word translated “Deacons” is Διακόνους (Diakonous). It is a masculine plural noun. A slightly different form of this word, διακόνοι [diakonoi], is used in verse 12. There it is masculine plural as well. Verses 8-9 deal with the personal character of deacons and verse 10 deals with the testing of deacons. The Γυναῖκας (Gynaikas) of verse 11 are distinguished from the Διακόνους (Diakonous) of verse 11 in two ways. This distinction is first indicated by the adverb “likewise.” The same adverb functions to distinguish “overseers” from “deacons” in 3:8. The distinction is indicated secondly by the fact that the group discussed in verse 11 are called Γυναῖκας (Gynaikas) . Verses 8-13 move from the overseers to the deacons. Verse 11 moves from the deacons’ personal qualifications to other qualifications. Verse 11 moves from the deacons themselves to their marriages (vv. 11-12a) and families (v. 12b). This order from personal to marital and then family is the same as is found in 3:1-2a (personal), 2b (marital), and 4-5 (family) with reference to overseers. The transition from personal qualifications (3:8-10) to marital and family (3:11-12) is a natural one given the pattern with the overseers. There is good reason, then, to translate Γυναῖκας (Gynaikas) as “wives.” It follows the pattern just mentioned and sets the stage for the deacons’ domestic life. It also follows a pattern in Paul that when he uses a form of γυνή (gynē) in the context of marriage the word indicates wife (e.g., 1 Tim. 5:9; Titus 1:6; Eph. 5:22; and Col. 3:22)."

"Something else is of interest. If 3:8 begins the section on deacons, it would seem awkward for Paul to intend “deaconesses” or “women” not the wives of deacons in 3:11 only to go back to deacons and their own wives in verse 12."

1 Timothy 3:11–“women” or “wives”

Of special interest to note also is, if Paul meant to describe Women Deacons in vs 11, he could have easily used the feminie form of the word deacons, but instead he chose to use the word for Wives/Women.

1 Timothy 3:11's context does not warrant the using the translation as woman instead of wives.

So no God did NOT give qualifications for women deacons Jerome.

 

That's a falsehood. Wycliffe, Young's Literal, ASV, Amplified, even NASB have "women" in that verse.

 

But you didn't even acknowledge the other translations which use women.

I see that you didn't even respond to the contextual and grammatical arguments.

 

How in the world does Calvinism impact the current discussion?

 

I agree, based on my overall understanding of Biblical teaching, women are not to hold the office of Elder or Deacon.

Is this a distinction of Baptist doctrine or are there denominations that take the same position?

 

Sorry this should have said translations which use wives.

 

Ha!
Hard to keep it all straight, isn't it?
I did ask Yeshua1/DaChaser1/JesusFan where he was getting "wife", and he did not provide a source.

 

1Ti 3:2 KJV - A bishop (G1985 - masculine noun) then must be blameless, the husband (G435 - masculine noun) of one wife (G1135 - feminine noun), vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1Ti 3:11 KJV - Even so [must their] wives [be] grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

1Ti 3:12 KJV - Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Not being a Greek scholar, my question is: Can the genders referenced in these verses be interchanged applying them equally?

 

I don't quite understand your question.

 

Sorry for the confusion. Hope this helps.

My question was/is based on the following from post #20:

 

Paul when he states qualifications for thepastor/elder always states that men are to be such, and their wives as such and such, never women can hold those offices,and the husbands are to be such and such!

 

Thanks for your reply. From my understanding of scripture, you and I agree. I was trying to address the following statement form post #20:

In order for "Baptist Believer" to take his position on men and women being equally qualified to hold the offices of Elder and/or Deacon, he would, it seems to me, to interchange the masculine and feminine nouns in the following and similar verses. Reference my post #51.

 

Yes, Paul would have reversed the listing!

 

Please note that you have ripped that statement out of context. Reformed and I were having a discussion where we had found some common ground, namely that women can be teachers of men in the New Testament church. He properly cited Acts 18, where Priscilla/Prisca is instructing Apollos in the way of God more accurately (Acts 18:26). Reformed had also noted that any teaching in the church is under the care and oversight of "the pastor or elders." I responded, "Yes, men and women under the same standard."

I don't know how you got that mixed up.

I have made no case in this discussion for a woman to be an "elder" (whatever you assume that to mean) and have simply noted that Phoebe was a deacon in the church and was highly respected by Paul (Romans 16:1). This verse may also indicate that she was Paul's representative to the churches in Rome, bearing the letter and possibly reading it to those congregations with the proper inflection and emphasis, answering questions the congregation may have had.

Since Phoebe was a deacon in the church, that informs our interpretation of Paul's character qualifications for deacons.

 

Just as long as there are NO women as pastors/elders!

 

You have the best post ever made on this subject!