COVID-19 | Munk Debates
This is a debate you should listen to for its factual information on the Coronavirus and the exaggerations of its overall threat and lethality. One epidemiologist is a liberal, the other is more conservative, and they don't disagree on the facts.
They disagree on policy, and in predictions. The Yale guy will say a blind panic nationwide lockdown for months is justified until we know more, the Stanford guy says we know enough to know that blind, long-term lockdowns are not justified and may in the long-term cause more problems than the virus. The Yale guy will say he believes that the lethality of the Coronavirus will be "five to seven to ten times" that of the Flu. The Stanford guy says not enough data yet, but if it is more lethal than the Flu, then more realistically it will be by a factor 1.5 to 2.
The Yale guy takes the opportunity to plug Green theology and politics and jab the administration (and with one or two debunked assertions), while the Stanford guy is saying pandemic unpreparedness is more a result of the public apathy at large.
A couple noteworthy quotes here:
"The number of people infected is much larger than the number of cases we have documented....In most places with few exceptions around the world we are just testing people who have substantial symptoms who come to healthcare and seek help or even to be hospitalized.
"These are just the tip of the iceberg. The Iceland experience [where a complete assessment was done and shows a mortality rate lower than that of the common Flu] and all our other data from Vo in Italy where the entire city population was tested showed that the vast majority of people [who are infected] are either completely asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic in ways that you would not be able to differentiate from Common Cold or Common Flu."
Also...
"Influenza, for example, kills many, many children. We don't really see deaths in children less than ten years old [with SARS-CoV-2], and we see extremely few severe cases in young individuals in the absence of underlying disease, while we do see it quite a lot with Influezna."
Two Epidemiologists Debate Our Response to SARS-CoV-2
Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Aaron, Mar 30, 2020.
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link and lucid summary. Very helpful. :Thumbsup :Thumbsup
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
Neither of them addressed the main underlying problem, namely the extreme reliance on foreign manufacturing of medical equipment, supplies, and pharmaceuticals, and that the reliance is mostly on Communist China. Had we the manufacturing infrastructure, we would be far more likely to be able to gear up quickly to meet demand in such a situation, rather than commandeering and converting other industries. -
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Study Suggests Potential High Rate of False-Positives For Some COVID-19 Testing -
It's a different virus. It doesn't kill as many children as the Flu. Those are some differences. -
Gold Dragon Well-Known Member
Focusing on the mortality rate of covid19 is a distraction.
Seasonal influenza hospitalizes around 1% of confirmed cases. Covid 19 hospitalizes around 20% of confirmed cases. Yes if the health system is not overwhelmed, most of that 20% will survive, 5% with an ICU stay and some of those with a ventilator, although once you hit the ventilator the odds of survival drop to around 50%.
Also every case of influenza infects around 1.3 other cases. Every case of covid19 infects 2.5 confirmed cases. If you count asymptomatic people you are looking at around 3-4 people.
Covid 19 is way more infectious than the seasonal flu and causes way more strain on the hospital system than the seasonal flu. The world is going to lose a large chunk of its ICU, emergency and critical care staff and countries that have been slow to recognize the seriousness of covid19 will lose a lot more.
Anyone who is still comparing covid19 to the seasonal flu is just out of touch with reality. -
The Flu number is based on more complete testing.
You didn't listen to the experts. -
Gold Dragon Well-Known Member
Those not tested are not included in confirmed cases. There are lots of unconfirmed influenza cases every year too.
You need to compare apples to apples. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Yep comparing covid 19 to influenza doesnt match the lefties agenda.
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Gold Dragon Well-Known Member
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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alexander284 Well-Known Member
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alexander284 Well-Known Member
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Gold Dragon Well-Known Member
I'll go on another "rabid" tirade for a minute.
These critical care nurses and doctors have spent decades training to get where they are. Ventilators, masks and PPE can be replaced in months. Replacing the experience and expertise of critical care staff takes decades.
The US will be losing some of its best medical professionals because too many people in leadership and in the general public thought this virus was "no big deal", despite what the medical professionals are telling them.
I haven't posted here in a long time because frankly I'm not interested in the circular arguments that go on here. But covid19 is life and death. And I don't want my brother's and sisters in Christ and my family members living in the US (some of whom work in hospitals and others who are elderly), or any human being for that matter, dying because of lack of information or misinformation. -
Use of Time Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Use of Time Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I’m sure Mitch will support this partisan hack statement with his own scientific analysis.
Spoiler alert: Never going to happen. -
Use of Time Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Gold Dragon Well-Known Member
When misinformation about Covid19 stops showing up here and folks get on with the business of working together to save lives through social distancing (which is Trump's plan too), you will see me disappear again from this forum. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You think too much of yourself, your posts, and the impact of what is said on this forum. Further more you are not a reliable source. You are more about fear and panic then you are reasonable consideration. Your left wing politics has been obvious. Really it just looks like you are more about criticism of conservatives wrapped up in feigned worry about how anyone views it all.
Good luck with that.
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