versions of the bible

I am so troubled by what michelle has accused me of (by innuendo) that I am compelled to answer.

First, she has demanded an impossibility because the English of the KJV does not have jots and tittles in the translation of the Law of the Hebrew Bible.

But just so that others will know that I am not guilty of doing what michelle has accused me of: Here is a web site to see what Hebrew Jots and tittles look like:

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Introduction/Why_Hebrew_/why_hebrew_.html

Go over to the right side of the page and you will see “Jots” and “Tittles” with illustrations.

OK, now go to this web site,

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Torah/Ten_Cmds/ten_cmds.html

then scroll down to the 2nd commandment: Important : when looking at the words, go from RIGHT to LEFT on the screen

Look at the second word from the right yihyehlekha, look at the Hebrew letter the 1st one on the RIGHT side of the word, It is A JOT (pronounced yod in Hebrew).

Look at the next letter to the left of the jot, it is a he with a tittle on the top.

After all these thousands of years they are still there just as Jesus said.

HankD

 

The New King James.

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]What about the KJV?

 

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I call you out on this.
I know the Jewish people are blind
(My Bible, the HCSB says they are).
I don't know they have the spirit of anti-christ.
Please cite your scripture for this.
Feel free to use any of the three KJV Bibles,
some other Bible translation hundreds of years old,
or even the original language Bible
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1 John 4

1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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I will provide the Scripture when you show me some jots and tittles from the Law as recorded in the KJV of the Bible.
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Hank,

I am sorry that you were offended by this, as it was not meant to cause you to be offended, but to think. It is important that we look at the whole cannon of scripture, concerning this issue, and what the Lord has said about it. Looking at one verse only without reference to other relevent scripture, isn't how we are to best understand God's words. Yes, Jesus used the words "jots and titles" but he was referring to the important point in the passage that makes this important to understand. This passage was concerning the seriousness that Jesus places upon his words. Reason being, that the whole cannon of scripture is about HIM. Prophecy is about HIM, and in the context of this passage he had just finished telling his disciples prophecy concerning the last days. Every word that he spoke was important, and we know this by his making that statement. We know that none of those words of the prophecy, or any part of scripture will pass. Knowing and believing Psalm 12 for what it says and in it's context, is confirmation of this also. Is the Lord only speaking to the Hebrew speaking/reading people? In this passage, this is who he is speaking. But WE ARE HIS PEOPLE ALSO, and this ALSO applies to me and ALL HIS FAITHFUL PEOPLE. Why do you ask me to doubt this? and then imply because I believe this, that I am wrong? Our Lord Jesus Christ, has told (in his words, and the evidence of them) me and others, and shown me and others, otherwise.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

So now Jesus did not say what He meant?!? I have always assumed that when Jesus said "jot or tittle" He meant "jot or tittle."

 

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So now Jesus did not say what He meant?!?
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Jesus was making a point using that as an illustration. Righly dividing the words of God show us what his point is and the picture is seen.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

His point is that no one jot or tittle will pass away - that is rightly dividing and that is what He meant!

How can you put words in His mouth?

 

Same old argument:

"If you disagree with me you call Jesus a liar, but if I choose to interpet what Jesus says the way I want I am rightly dividing."

 

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His point is that no one jot or tittle will pass away - that is rightly dividing and that is what He meant!
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2 Tim.2

14. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18. Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22. Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26. And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

I had my pity party and then realized this. You are a very dynamic and charismatic person and I guess if I get in the ring with you I should expect an occassional black eye.

I hope I also made you think with my answer.

HankD

 

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV1769):
Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 2:15 (HCSB)
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God,
a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed,
correctly teaching the word of truth.

1 Timothy 2:12 (HCSB)
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority
over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

1 Timothy 2:12 (KJV1769)
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority
over the man, but to be in silence.

Cleary from the Bible, "rightly dividing" means
"correctly teaching".
But clearly also from the Bible, A woman
is not to teach. Therefore, a woman is not
allowed to be rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

askjo asks concerning my answer of the NKJV as the most accurate translation of the Bible:

Well in the 17the century it probably ran neck and neck with the Geneva Bible.

Although the Geneva Bible has not been the object of close scrutiny on my part.

My reluctance with the KJV is with the period English of the 17th century. Not for the "churched" though we all know the archaic words pretty well, love it, memorize it...

Both the KJV and the NKJV are based upon the Traditional Texts Masora/TR (Scrivener) which is my choice as the virtual reconstruction of the Word of God.

HankD

 

Dr Bob, get yur tongue out of your cheek

You know the Greek.

HankD

 

INCOMING!!

HankD

 

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Both the KJV and the NKJV are based upon the Traditional Texts Masora/TR (Scrivener) which is my choice as the virtual reconstruction of the Word of God.

HankD
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But Hank, isn't it true that Schrivers text is a reconstruction? And isn't it also true that some of the texts that were used by the KJB translators no longer exist?

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

INCOMING!!

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]Not every interpertation
need be stricly literal.
There are the metaphor and simile twins.
There is the polysendenton "and".
There is the synecdoche trinity:
1. synecdoche of a part (metonymy of a part)
2. synecdoche of the whole
3. synecdoche of genius

But don't spiritualize the truth away either

But I love to praise Jesus in 17th Century talk:
Praise Iesus, the Christ

 

michelle
"Wow, the way you describe them, seems like you hate them. Do you?"
''
You mean I actually got your interpretation of them right?
Anyway I am a member of (and work for) a baptistchurch that takes seperation so seriously that we don't maintain official ties with any other church or institution. I am well aware of the Farisee roots of modern Judaïsm. So I don't hate those parts of Scripture. I live them.

"Do you think based upon what the scriptures say, that this would be something "blessed" by God?"
''
I think the Bible is a bit vague when it comes to translationguidelines, that by your own interpretation the KJV violates Galatians 1 and that as long as the Jewish involvement doesn't extend beyond the Old Testament there does not have to be a problem in that department.
Conclusion: I will withhold judgement at least untill after I've read the new translation thoroughly and debated it's merits/flaws with some knowledgeable others.

If things turn sour my church can always switch to the AV1637*.
Some update of that one will still be in print.

*Yes I got the year right, why waste time on an update of the AV1611 if one has the linguistic skills more optimally suited to use the AV1637.

 

Yes to all.

Scrivener collated the three TR's and the KJV alternative readings (Vulgate, Septuagint) in one cohesive Textus Receptus which underlies the text of the KJV.

Though Dr. Peter Ruckman goes ballistic at the mention of "the Greek", I have read articles by him in which he uses the Greek of the Scrivener TR.

Personally I believe it to be the virtual reconstruction of the NT.

The ben Chayyim Masora that of the OT.

You can't prove your theory I can't prove mine.

But the Church from the beginning has always held the Greek and Hebrew to be the inspired text and in the words of the KJV translators themselves "being the tongues wherein God was pleased to speak to his Church by the Prophets and Apostles.".

Amen.

HankD