Was it God's will for Adam to Sin ?

One must not reject Jesus. No one overcomes this world without faith in Jesus. Not cheating on your spouse is not a work. Do you get weary from trying not to cheat on your wife? Is it a hard job for you to be faithful?

Not lying is not a work. It is wrong not to lie. It is not a work not to lie. You said your parents were not saved, but they believed in Jesus and kept his commandments, so why do you say they were not saved?

It is not a work not to commit adultery. You have no understanding.

Jesus says the Father and he will make a home with those who have his teachings and obey them. John 14:23. The Word of God says we who obey receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 5:32.
I believe my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I do not believe what you say.

 

You are perverting the ten commandments! They forbid starting as much as they demand stopping these things. You are fundementally and completely ignorant of the term "work" and what it means. It is something YOU DO and cheating on your wife is something you do as much as going to church is something you do.

If you think "works" must be restricted within the framework of the ceremonial law of Moses than what do you do with the very term applied to Christians to describe good and bad works in their life????

"Created in Christ Jesus unto good WORKS" - Eph. 2:10

Mt 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

Moses and the ceremonial law was not even around when Jacob and Esau lived and Paul describes "works" as those things they did that were either "good" or "evil"

Ro 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

The same Greek word "ergon" is translated both "deeds" and "works" and in the same chapter referring to the same law:

Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?[ERGON] Nay: but by the law of faith.
Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds [ERGON]of the law.

 

The Gentiles were NOT called God’s people. The Gentiles did NOT obey the law of circumcision, the law of works.

It was the law to do the works of the law, and it was a sin not to obey God and be circumcised. If a Jew was not circumcised, he would be cut off from his people.
Tell me, Biblicist, does it make you weary to work at being faithful to your wife? Does it make you weary to work at not stealing? Do you not see how those are not work?

 

It is a work to remain faithful to your wife. If you are married you made a vow to do so when you got married. You vowed before man and God to be faithful to your spouse. If you cheat, you sin and break that law, that command. That is one of the worst commands that you can break. It takes work to keep a marriage together; a family together. If you cheat, you tear it apart. But keeping your marriage together doesn't get you saved. That doesn't get you brownie points in God's sight. Even the unsaved keep their marriages together, and many believers get divorced.

I never said they believed in Jesus; I said they were unsaved.
Telling the truth is a work. It takes work. It has to be taught to children and they have to work at telling the truth because of their sin nature. They lie naturally. If one tells the truth it does not earn brownie points with God. It does not merit eternal life. It does not even keep them saved. It has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation is not of works.

It takes works to be faithful to your spouse. If you commit adultery you have broken that vow, and are not doing the work God commanded you to do.

The Bible says salvation is not of works. That is what I said. If you don't believe that, then you don't believe what the Bible says. Read Eph.2:8,9.

 

Don't dare read your nonsense into Romans 3:9-21 because Paul does include the Gentiles by name in this section at the very beginning (v. 9). The description he gives in verses 10-18 is a description of both Gentiles and Jews. The law they are under in verses 19-20 is comprehensive of both GENTILES and Jews and the universal language proves it and the conclusion in Romans 3:22-23 proves it "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE for ALL have sinned" and sin is the violation of the law.

Get out of dream world and deal with the Biblical text of Romans 3:9-27. He is not restricting "law" to the ceremonial law of Moses or to the Mosaic Law as he includes GENTILES by name when introducing those "UNDER SIN" - Rom. 3:9.

He is not restricting "law" to the ceremonial law of Moses or to the Mosaic law as he explicitly says that "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE for ALL have sinned" in regard to both GENTILES and Jews who are "UNDER SIN" - Rom. 3:22-23. He is using law in its most comprehensive meaning that is inclusive of all of God's law, written, natural, conscience, human government, etc.

What has the word "weary" got to do with it? Does "weary" make it more of a work and than "cheery"????? Does "cheery" make it less of a work than "weary"?????

God forbid anyone goes to you for marriage counseling! If you do not think it takes work and lots of it to be a good husband or to be a good wife than God help your poor spouse! Any marriage counselor will tell you that you MUST "work" at having a good marriage or else you will not have one.

 

I am not perverting anything. You have fallen into the snare of the devil to do his work, for you to tell people they can be saved and it is normal for them to sin.

Could you explain this better? What do you mean good and bad works?

Well, Jacob and Esau’s grandfather Abraham had the covenant of circumcision. God knew Esau would trade his inheritance for some stew. Even though Esau was the first-born, like Israel, Jacob was chosen, like Gentiles. Even though Israel had the works of the law, and the Gentiles did not work, God gave mercy on the Gentiles. God can have mercy on whom He has mercy. God will have compassion on whom He has compassion.
Even on the Sabbath Day when WORKS were against the law, it was still wrong to do evil on the Sabbath! It was still right to do good on the Sabbath!

 

It is NOT a work to remain faithful to your wife. Does it make you weary of the work?

If you cheat on your wife, it is not because you stopped working. Can you not reason?

If they do not believe in Jesus, then why use them for an example!

It is not a work not to lie, no matter how many times you say it.

If you believe it is a work to be faithful to your wife, then you do not have your eyes opened. If you had your eyes opened, then no ugly sin of adultery would tempt you.

 

Making stupid accusations is your only way to escape Biblical facts put before you that you cannot directly deal with!! The commandments prohibit STARTING lying as much as they demand ceasing lying. Lying is something YOU DO. God does not do it for you! YOU DO IT! Works by definition is what YOU DO. They can be "EVIL" or they can be "GOOD" but if you DO IT that is your "works" and that is exactly what you will be judged for "according to your works."

What???? Can't you read?? I never explained anything! I quoted scripture and you can't deal with it so you toss it back on me hoping I will say something so you simply ignore such scriptures and take off on some rabbit trail. No, I won't do that! I will just give you more scriptures that obviously exposes your rediculous definition of "works" to be circumcision and other ceremonial law keeping. Apply that rediculous idea to these Jews BEFORE the cross:


Mt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mt 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

Mt 11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:


Apply that rediculous idea to these AFTER the cross:


Ac 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1Ti 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.


The term "work" and "deeds" is used interchangably in Romans 3:27-28

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Oh stop perverting the text! The text says NOTHING about what would be DONE TO THEM by their grandfather or father but what THEY WOULD DO and they didn't circumcise themselves!!!! HE IS TALKING ABOUT good and bad WORKS THEY DO AND THERE IS NO CEREMONIAL LAW until Moses!

 

Paul is explaining about why the Jews who had the law were cut off, and why the Gentiles who were not God’ people were now God’s people.

Are you in a dream world? God nailed the law of works to the cross see Colossians 2:14. Do you think God nailed adultery to the cross? Do you think God nailed stealing to the cross? It is almost laughable what you suggest.

Do you not know that work makes people weary? Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
What do you think Jesus was talking about? Do you think Jesus was asking people if they were tired of having to be honest? Do you still believe that being honest is a work, and therefore something we do not have to be to be saved?

 

I have counseled many couples. Believe me. They have to work at it to make their marriages "work." It is not a 50/50 proposition; it is 100%/100% both working self-sacrificially giving their all to making their marriage work. If you don't know that you either aren't married, shouldn't be married, and definitely should never be involved in counseling others. Working to make the marriage work, to be faithful to each other is indeed work. Breaking that bond is sin. It is evidence that you have not been working at it.

1. It is because you have stopped working on your marriage.
2. It is because you have stopped working on your relationship with Christ.
3. It is because you have given into your carnal sin nature.

Because they are part of the human race. They, like you sin. We all do.

It takes work to teach children to tell the truth. It takes work to keep on telling the truth.
"Let God be true but every man a liar."
You lie. You do it often. I don't accuse you, but the Bible does.
The Bible also says:

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If you would obey the Ten Commandments you would not bear false witness against your brother.
I never said that "the ugly sin of adultery tempts me."
That is your slanderous accusation against me, one of those daily sins you keep on committing. Is this a lifestyle with you??

I said quite the opposite. I said it takes work for a person to keep their marriage together. Watch your mouth!

 

It is not a work to be faithful to your wife. It is not a work to forgive your brother. It IS a work to make one self ceremonially clean before worshiping God. It IS a work to get an animal and offer it for sins. Can you imagine if we all had to do those things now to worship God? Thank You God for Jesus, for in him we have rest.
It is laughable for you to think we can have rest from sleeping around on our spouse, or a rest from being honest.

I have no idea what you are saying.

This is about doing good. This is not about the works of the law. The works of the law were nailed to the cross. Colossians 2:14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Sure, you think killing and stealing are against us! LOL According to you, to abstain from killing and stealing are works, but now they are nailed to the cross.

 

Amazing how some are still under the law.

 

Q

Are you on drugs or something?? Romans 3:9 says no such thing! Indeed it says the very opposite of what you are saying:

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Don't change the subject but deal with the context placed before you. Running from Romans 3:9-28 and pitting Colossians 2:14-16 is an open admission that you don't understand Romans 3:9-28 or else you could directly deal with it and demonstrate what you believe. But you cannot and so you do the old run and pit routine.

If I followed you to Colossians 2:14-15 and contextually proved your wrong there you would simply do the same thing again - run and pit, run and pit, run and pit as that is the modus operandi and seal of all false teachers. That is precisely how they keep their false doctrine going - run and pit, run and pit. They cannot do expository and exgesis because they are ignorant and deceived so the run and pit, run and pit.


Second, Yes, in regard to JUSTIFICATION BEFORE GOD he nailed all ten commandments to the cross so that we are DEAD to the Law or have you ever read Romans 7:1-5????? Yes, in regard to JUSTIFICATION BEFORE GOD we are no longer UNDER THE LAW but UNDER GRACE or have you not read Romans 6:14-15????

However, in regard to what the Law was designed and given for, to instruct us in the knowlege of sin (Rom. 3:21) it is still applied by the Holy Spirit to us in regard to PROGRESSIVE SANCTIFICATION.

He was talking to people just like you and HP! People who believe that heaven and eternal life are ultimately obtained by obedience to God's commands rather than by Christ's obedience FOR YOU to God's Commands! People who actually believe they will be justified before God "according to your works" instead according to God's provision for sinners in the works and death of Jesus Christ. People who believe that JUSTIFICATION is by works instead of by grace without works. People just like YOU! I would not want your WEARY life long doing good works in order to be justified for anything! You need to dump it in the trash can where it belongs and trust in Christ to have "finished" it and thus "rest" from all your works while trusting in His to justify you.

 

I am talking about someone with their eyes opened. It is not a work to stay in your own bed. It is evil to be intimate with someone besides your spouse.

The Bible is not accusing me of lying.

Here you go again twisting and lying about me.

It is not a work not to be intimate with another woman. It is evil to want to cheat on your wife.

 

Did you take your medicine?

We were talking about Romans 11!

I answered all your questions. It is you who does not answer.

God did not nail doing right to the cross.

I am so glad that HP is here for me to read truth from and be encouraged.

It is not a work to live the way Jesus teaches. It is the only way to live.

 

You are as blind as they come! You think "deeds" is something different than "works" when Paul uses them interchangable as Romas 3:27-28 proves.

You think the law only pertains to passivity as you repeatedly present it only as a passive negative, when in fact, it prohibits DOING it as much as it demands not to start doing it.

You don't understand that "disobedience" and "obedience" can be defined by "evil" and "good" works!

Look at your own words? You say it is "evil" to be intimate with someone besides your spouse!! Evil what? Evil works or at least that is what Paul calls it:

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled





I

Yes, it it is! It is a "good" work not to be intimate with another woman just as it is a "evil" work to cheat on your wife! The first is called OBEDIENCE while the latter is called DISOBEDIENCE and that is the difference between "GOOD" and "BAD" works!

Tell me one thing! Will God use your definitions on judgement day? Will he say to adulterers, it was "evil" what you did but it was not an "evil work" and therefore since I am judging you "according to your works" then I can't judge you for adultery because it is NOT A WORK!!!!!! Go figure!

 

Read your Bible. Keeping the Ten Commandments is the most basic of a works based religion. It is the basis of many religions that have based their religions on works.

Romans 3:4 "Let God be true, but every man a liar."

Read your own post. You made very personal remarks about me that you need to apologize for. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. If another moderator of this forum were reading such, he no doubt would have given you an infraction for what you wrote. Don't make things personal.

It takes work for a couple to have a successful marriage. My parents were married for 61 years. How many couples do you know have stayed together that long? I know many that have stayed together for ten years and less, and then have divorced. But for 61 years? They weren't saved, but they worked at keeping their marriage together.

It is evil to want to cheat on one's spouse; evil and sin. If you do you break the ten commandments.

James 2:10-11 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Moriah, do you have a religion of works?
Does it take works for you to be saved?
Does it take works for you to maintain your salvation?

 

Readers, will God on judgement day define "works" the way Moriah does? He says that keeping from violating the law is not "works" and violating the law is not "works"!

It is not a work to stay in your own bed. It is evil to be intimate with someone besides your spouse. - Moriah

Since neither are works by his definition and since God's only rule of judgement is "according to THY WORKS" then God cannot judge anyone for committing adulter, lying, killing, cursing on judgement day because according to Moriah none of these things are "works" and neither is it "good works" by obeying the law by not doing them!

 

Better go back and look at the post you were responding to! It was my post you were responding to and I was quoting Romans 3 not Romans 11.

 

James 2:20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Are you saying it is not evil to be intimate with someone besides your spouse?

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
It is not a work of the law to reprove unfruitful deeds of darkness.
Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior.
It is not a work of the law to stop being evil.

You just described how YOUR definition sounds. You sure are confused. Being faithful to your wife is not a work of the law.