Magnetic Poles
New Member
So, just because it doesn't encourage you in your faith, you condemn it. Have you ever considered it may encourage someone else?Linda64 said:
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What can wash away my sin?
- Thread starter Aubre
- Start date
Joshua Rhodes
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Linda64 said:
Respectfully, this is an opinion only. I happen to opine differently, and that also is my opinion. Biblical proof on musical style is not available. What makes the song Christian or not is the lyric, not the style.
and yet - what makes a song christian or not is apparently an opine of many others...
i fully agree it is the lyrics that make it christian or not - whats it matter if its syncopated or piano?
another thing - if any kind of music style appeals to your desires in your flesh... you've got a big problem - spiritually - and physically.
i fully agree it is the lyrics that make it christian or not - whats it matter if its syncopated or piano?
another thing - if any kind of music style appeals to your desires in your flesh... you've got a big problem - spiritually - and physically.
Some guy on a chat site was asking what he should do with his new found talent, (playing the guitar). I didn't want to answer because I think he should ask God or his pastor, not me. Someone else decided to answer. The answer he got was:
"...you should use your new found musical talent to change secular songs into christian songs. For instance, take Van Halen's 'Running with the Devil' and change it to 'Running with the Saviour'..."
Though I think some people have way too extreme a bad opinion of perfectly good music, I have to say this guy got some STUPID advice. Imagine wasting God givin talent on garbage like that. There is definately a line. It's bad enough some people think they need to emulate the musical styles of the world, but to actually copy their songs....
"...you should use your new found musical talent to change secular songs into christian songs. For instance, take Van Halen's 'Running with the Devil' and change it to 'Running with the Saviour'..."
Though I think some people have way too extreme a bad opinion of perfectly good music, I have to say this guy got some STUPID advice. Imagine wasting God givin talent on garbage like that. There is definately a line. It's bad enough some people think they need to emulate the musical styles of the world, but to actually copy their songs....
i agree with you blammo - dont encourage other people who just started guitar to start playing biblical parodies...
no dont do that - because its already being done! --> www.apologetix.com its a christian band. they're ok. dont listen to them much though.
no dont do that - because its already being done! --> www.apologetix.com its a christian band. they're ok. dont listen to them much though.
gekko said:
I am NOT equating sugar with the Word of God---I was using that as an example of doing what you say is okie dokie to do with Christian lyrics and worldly music. You totally twisted what I said there. And YES--it does compromise the gospel message -- I listened to Apologetix--and can't even understand the lyrics because the music is too rocky. For instance "Hotel Can't Afford You" to the tune of "Hotel California"--the music definitely takes away from the message, especially when listening to Apologetix's songs, because all they are is rock and roll songs that the world sings, set to gospel lyrics.
The only way I know you is through your text--and your text speaks loud and clear.
apologetix's music is not clear to you because you dont like it. you dont want it to be clear. because you are not open-minded to it.
it is still the gospel. doesn't matter what package its in. its still the gospel.
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heard a story - ray comfort does open air preaching in LA. and he had this heckler who would cuss and all that vulgar stuff. one day - a guy from the crowd went out an found ray and told him he became a christian - ray asked the guy "really? when did this happen?" "on monday - where you usually open air preach" "monday? i didn't preach on monday..." "yah - well that heckler was mocking christianity so much - that i was sick of it - went out and got saved"
the bible talks about this. it does not matter what package. it is still the gospel. and i praise the Lord it is being said out there. i do pray though it is the true gospel.
a seed will grow no matter who plants it. if a homeless guy from SWflorida plants a seed in a rich soil field. the seed will grow. if a rich business man from NYC plants a seed in a field. the seed will grow.
the quality of the seed is not in who sows it. but in the seed itself.
it is still the gospel. doesn't matter what package its in. its still the gospel.
---
heard a story - ray comfort does open air preaching in LA. and he had this heckler who would cuss and all that vulgar stuff. one day - a guy from the crowd went out an found ray and told him he became a christian - ray asked the guy "really? when did this happen?" "on monday - where you usually open air preach" "monday? i didn't preach on monday..." "yah - well that heckler was mocking christianity so much - that i was sick of it - went out and got saved"
the bible talks about this. it does not matter what package. it is still the gospel. and i praise the Lord it is being said out there. i do pray though it is the true gospel.
a seed will grow no matter who plants it. if a homeless guy from SWflorida plants a seed in a rich soil field. the seed will grow. if a rich business man from NYC plants a seed in a field. the seed will grow.
the quality of the seed is not in who sows it. but in the seed itself.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
it is still the gospel no matter what the package?
is it now?
Let's see. If I wrapped a candy bar in a tin that said sauerkraut, I wonder just how much would sell to children?
Paul wrote in Galatians 1 that 'if any man bring you any other gospel than that which we have preached, let him be accursed.' You cannot wrap the Bible, the precious Words of God up in a song like 'Bethlehemian Rhapsody,' or 'Narrow Way To Heaven,' and expect to present the message in it's full effect.
The songs that Apologetix sing all are from the very same rock and roll I heard for years. They have just changed the words. The music is what is enticing the people to listen to them, not the lyrics.
"you are just not open-minded to it."
That is the same thing satan used in the garden of Eden. 'God knows that in the day you eat of the tree that your minds will be open, knowing good and evil.'
Some things, God does not want us to be 'open-minded' about... rock and roll is one of those things.
is it now?
Let's see. If I wrapped a candy bar in a tin that said sauerkraut, I wonder just how much would sell to children?
Paul wrote in Galatians 1 that 'if any man bring you any other gospel than that which we have preached, let him be accursed.' You cannot wrap the Bible, the precious Words of God up in a song like 'Bethlehemian Rhapsody,' or 'Narrow Way To Heaven,' and expect to present the message in it's full effect.
The songs that Apologetix sing all are from the very same rock and roll I heard for years. They have just changed the words. The music is what is enticing the people to listen to them, not the lyrics.
"you are just not open-minded to it."
That is the same thing satan used in the garden of Eden. 'God knows that in the day you eat of the tree that your minds will be open, knowing good and evil.'
Some things, God does not want us to be 'open-minded' about... rock and roll is one of those things.
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I would rather be narrow minded--one can be so open minded that anything will drop into it! Jesus said:
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (Matthew 7:13)
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:14)
The narrow way is LIFE!
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SFIC said " Let's see. If I wrapped a candy bar in a tin that said sauerkraut, I wonder just how much would sell to children?"
oh but you are missing just one point aren't you?
-the candy bar is still a candy bar even if it is wrapped in a package that says sauerkraut on it.
i do not become the wall if i walk in the shadow of a wall. i do not become a box if i put myself in a box. i stay the same.
same with the gospel.
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philippians 1:12-18: "But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which hapened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel; So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places; And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, EVERY WAY, whether in PRETENCE, or IN TRUTH, Christ is preached; and I therein DO REJOICE, yea, and will rejoice."
some preach Christ of envy and strife, some of contention - some of good will, others of love. whichever way Christ is preached - I WILL REJOICE!
it hurts my heart the condition of those hearts who preach of envy and strife and contention. i pray for those. and encourage others.
oh but you are missing just one point aren't you?
-the candy bar is still a candy bar even if it is wrapped in a package that says sauerkraut on it.
i do not become the wall if i walk in the shadow of a wall. i do not become a box if i put myself in a box. i stay the same.
same with the gospel.
---
philippians 1:12-18: "But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which hapened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel; So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places; And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, EVERY WAY, whether in PRETENCE, or IN TRUTH, Christ is preached; and I therein DO REJOICE, yea, and will rejoice."
some preach Christ of envy and strife, some of contention - some of good will, others of love. whichever way Christ is preached - I WILL REJOICE!
it hurts my heart the condition of those hearts who preach of envy and strife and contention. i pray for those. and encourage others.
Our Daily Bread records this incident:
DHK
This hymn would never had the same effect; would never been the same rebuttal to the atheist that it was, if it had been put to rock music. The medium is the music. And if the medium does not fit the message, the message will fail.
DHK
You just contradicted yourself gekko--adding Christian lyrics to a secular song doesn't make the song Christian. The secular song STAYS THE SAME--and the gospel is watered down. --you are making the gospel of non effect because it is the MUSIC that you are listening to--NOT THE LYRICS.
Those verses you quoted from Philippians 1 have no bearing on the subject of music --the topic is Paul's rejoicing in his suffering and in his imprisonment. The apostle could praise God for his prison experience. It had helped and not hindered the spread of the gospel. Verses 14-16 speak of the carnality of Paul's foes. In spite of the impure and insincere motives of his enemies in proclaiming the gospel, Paul nevertheless rejoiced, for "whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." (1:18) The greatest problem of the world, then, as it is today, is not that the gospel is imperfectly preached, but that it is not preached at all.
To use this portion of scripture to "prove" that people are contentious and only preach a gospel of "envy" won't work. We are told that we are to discern and "test the spirits" (1 John 4:1)--and that is what we are doing.
There are unscriptural ways of presenting the gospel--and rock and roll music is just one of those unscriptural ways.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. (Colossians 3:16)
When you bring the "world" into the gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-4), you have a "worldly" gospel which doesn't save.
DHK said "This hymn would never had the same effect; would never been the same rebuttal to the atheist that it was, if it had been put to rock music."
now that i can agree with.
"The medium is the music. And if the medium does not fit the message, the message will fail."
now that i cannot agree with.
the medium may be the music. but if the medium does not fit the message - it does not mean that the message will fail.
did you not read the verse in philipians i posted?
or my earlier post of: the quality of the seed is not in the person who sows the seed - no - the quality of the seed is in the seed itself.
the message will only fail if you allow it to.
i wouldn't agree to put any hymn to hard rock music. soft rock style is nice. even surf style is nice. i've made up my own acoustic/surf version of amazing grace.
thats just my opinion though.
however which way the gospel is getting out into the world - i rejoice.
now that i can agree with.
"The medium is the music. And if the medium does not fit the message, the message will fail."
now that i cannot agree with.
the medium may be the music. but if the medium does not fit the message - it does not mean that the message will fail.
did you not read the verse in philipians i posted?
or my earlier post of: the quality of the seed is not in the person who sows the seed - no - the quality of the seed is in the seed itself.
the message will only fail if you allow it to.
i wouldn't agree to put any hymn to hard rock music. soft rock style is nice. even surf style is nice. i've made up my own acoustic/surf version of amazing grace.
thats just my opinion though.
however which way the gospel is getting out into the world - i rejoice.
linda said " When you bring the "world" into the gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-4), you have a "worldly" gospel which doesn't save."
thats the thing though linda... im not bringing the world into the gospel - im bringing the gospel into the world. in not of.
"You just contradicted yourself gekko--adding Christian lyrics to a secular song doesn't make the song Christian. The secular song STAYS THE SAME--and the gospel is watered down. --you are making the gospel of non effect because it is the MUSIC that you are listening to--NOT THE LYRICS."
did i? i dont believe i contradicted myself. listen: the gospel message stays the same - dont matter what package you put around it. the message does not change. the gospel does not change. it doesnt change into a rose just because they put the gospel in a patch of roses.
thats the thing though linda... im not bringing the world into the gospel - im bringing the gospel into the world. in not of.
"You just contradicted yourself gekko--adding Christian lyrics to a secular song doesn't make the song Christian. The secular song STAYS THE SAME--and the gospel is watered down. --you are making the gospel of non effect because it is the MUSIC that you are listening to--NOT THE LYRICS."
did i? i dont believe i contradicted myself. listen: the gospel message stays the same - dont matter what package you put around it. the message does not change. the gospel does not change. it doesnt change into a rose just because they put the gospel in a patch of roses.
Some questions for those in the Godly music vs. Secular music debate that has shown up in this thread:
Can a tune that started out as a secular (i.e., non-religious) tune ever be used in a hymn to glorify God?
Case in point:
In 1797 Franz Joseph Haydn composed Das Lied der Deutschen ("The Song of the Germans") a/k/a Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles ("Germany, Germany Over All"). [He also used the melody to form the 2d movement of his String Quartet #62, Op. 76, #3.]
This is also the music for:
1) The hymn "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken," and
2) The national anthem of Germany [a favorite song of Adolph Hitler].
Given these facts, is that music secular or Godly?
Can a tune that started out as a secular (i.e., non-religious) tune ever be used in a hymn to glorify God?
Case in point:
In 1797 Franz Joseph Haydn composed Das Lied der Deutschen ("The Song of the Germans") a/k/a Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles ("Germany, Germany Over All"). [He also used the melody to form the 2d movement of his String Quartet #62, Op. 76, #3.]
This is also the music for:
1) The hymn "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken," and
2) The national anthem of Germany [a favorite song of Adolph Hitler].
Given these facts, is that music secular or Godly?
GLORIOUS THINGS OF THEE ARE SPOKEN
Words: John Newton, Olney Hymns (London: W. Oliver, 1779).
Music: “Austria (Haydn),” arranged by Franz J. Haydn, 1797, possibly from a Croatian folk melody. Alternate tune:
“Abbot’s Leigh,” by Cyril V. Taylor, 1941 © 1941, renewed 1970, Hope Publishing Company, Carol Stream, IL 60188. Used by permission.
Franz J. Haydn (1732-1809)
Historical Note: Haydn originally adapted “Austria” for a patriotic song, “Gott, erhalte Franz, den Kaiser,” first performed for the emperor’s birthday, February 12, 1797. It is still used as the tune of the German song Das Deutschlandlied. Because of the associations the first stanza (“Deutschland, Deutschland über alles…”) developed with the Nazis, the third stanza (“Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit/Für das Deutsche Vaterland”) is the one now used for the German national anthem.
Here are the words, which were written in 1779 by John Newton:
GLORIOUS THINGS OF THEE ARE SPOKEN
Glorious things of thee are spoken,
Zion, city of our God!
He, Whose Word cannot be broken,
Formed thee for His own abode.
On the Rock of Ages founded,
What can shake thy sure repose?
With salvation’s walls surrounded,
Thou may’st smile at all thy foes.
See! the streams of living waters,
Springing from eternal love;
Well supply thy sons and daughters,
And all fear of want remove:
Who can faint while such a river
Ever flows their thirst t’assuage?
Grace, which like the Lord, the Giver,
Never fails from age to age.
Round each habitation hovering,
See the cloud and fire appear!
For a glory and a cov’ring
Showing that the Lord is near.
Thus deriving from our banner
Light by night and shade by day;
Safe they feed upon the manna
Which He gives them when they pray.
Blest inhabitants of Zion,
Washed in the Redeemer’s blood!
Jesus, Whom their souls rely on,
Makes them kings and priests to God.
’Tis His love His people raises,
Over self to reign as kings,
And as priests, His solemn praises
Each for a thank offering brings.
Savior, if of Zion’s city,
I through grace a member am,
Let the world deride or pity,
I will glory in Thy Name.
Fading is the worldling’s pleasure,
All his boasted pomp and show;
Solid joys and lasting treasure
None but Zion’s children know.
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/l/glorious.htm
With all this information, I will let you decide whether or not this music is secular or Godly.
Words: John Newton, Olney Hymns (London: W. Oliver, 1779).
Music: “Austria (Haydn),” arranged by Franz J. Haydn, 1797, possibly from a Croatian folk melody. Alternate tune:
“Abbot’s Leigh,” by Cyril V. Taylor, 1941 © 1941, renewed 1970, Hope Publishing Company, Carol Stream, IL 60188. Used by permission.
Franz J. Haydn (1732-1809)
Historical Note: Haydn originally adapted “Austria” for a patriotic song, “Gott, erhalte Franz, den Kaiser,” first performed for the emperor’s birthday, February 12, 1797. It is still used as the tune of the German song Das Deutschlandlied. Because of the associations the first stanza (“Deutschland, Deutschland über alles…”) developed with the Nazis, the third stanza (“Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit/Für das Deutsche Vaterland”) is the one now used for the German national anthem.
Here are the words, which were written in 1779 by John Newton:
GLORIOUS THINGS OF THEE ARE SPOKEN
Glorious things of thee are spoken,
Zion, city of our God!
He, Whose Word cannot be broken,
Formed thee for His own abode.
On the Rock of Ages founded,
What can shake thy sure repose?
With salvation’s walls surrounded,
Thou may’st smile at all thy foes.
See! the streams of living waters,
Springing from eternal love;
Well supply thy sons and daughters,
And all fear of want remove:
Who can faint while such a river
Ever flows their thirst t’assuage?
Grace, which like the Lord, the Giver,
Never fails from age to age.
Round each habitation hovering,
See the cloud and fire appear!
For a glory and a cov’ring
Showing that the Lord is near.
Thus deriving from our banner
Light by night and shade by day;
Safe they feed upon the manna
Which He gives them when they pray.
Blest inhabitants of Zion,
Washed in the Redeemer’s blood!
Jesus, Whom their souls rely on,
Makes them kings and priests to God.
’Tis His love His people raises,
Over self to reign as kings,
And as priests, His solemn praises
Each for a thank offering brings.
Savior, if of Zion’s city,
I through grace a member am,
Let the world deride or pity,
I will glory in Thy Name.
Fading is the worldling’s pleasure,
All his boasted pomp and show;
Solid joys and lasting treasure
None but Zion’s children know.
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/l/glorious.htm
With all this information, I will let you decide whether or not this music is secular or Godly.