What can wash away my sin?

[Linda64]

LINDA - have you ever heard of just answering the question?
what's this? --

ok. can you point out any so called christian rock that doesn't have that?

there are so called christian bands that dont have that. i agree - so i dont listen to them.

can you point out any so called christian hip-hop artists that dont have that?
can you point out any so called christian acoustic/surf artists that dont have that?
etc.
---



oh cool. i heard about that a super long time ago - i didnt know if they made better versions for it or not. that's neat.

I am really trying hard to tell you that Christian rock is an oxymoron--as Christian mud, Christian trees, Christian grass and Christian wildlife are oxymorons as well---phrases that contradict themselves.

I listen to "spiritual" music, gekko--not to so called called Christian rock, hip-hop, acoustic/surf artists(I have no idea what a surf artist is)--if the music does not have those seven principles, then I don't listen to it. Did that answer your question?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

DragonNaturallySpeaking is acturally a lot better than when it was first introduced.

My first encounter with it was in 1996 and it was called DragonDictate Voice Recognition Software. Back then, it was an expensive software at $699.00. Today, you can get NaturallySpeaking for less than 100 and do a lot more. There are many books it uses to train your voice with, such as:

Dave Barry's 'Adventures In Cyberspace'; a comical look at computers.

It works great for me. I highly reccommend it.

 

[Eric B]

According to God's Holy Word, I do not judge others except through 'righteous judgment.' Righteous judgment is made by lining up people's lives and actions with the Word of God. I have indeed judged, but righteously according to the scripture. As Daniel told Belshazzar on that day that his kingdom fell, 'You have been weighed in the balance and found wanting,' so I am able to say as well by the authority of God's Holy Word that those who are drinking from the table of the Lord and the table of devils, those who will not separate themselves from worldliness, are also weighed in the balance and found wanting.

This puts the cart before the horse. You have not shown that all people who listen to a certain STYLE of music are drinking the cup of devils, or that only the traditional hymn style is of God (and not the world). This whole assumption came about because of the association of the rhythms with cursed, demonic Africa, and that "Christian" Western society was some sacred covenant nation that was closer to God than everyone else; and its's time to let go of this. (And you think tose people who believed that sowed to ths spirit). This whole argument is a vicious cycle of claims about the world, the flesh and the devil, but you have to show that Christians truly are guilty of that, not move to the next claim when the last one is challenged.
Here is a summary of these fallacies:
Http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html#summary

 

[Eric B]

Oh, and as for "priesthood", yes, we are ALL priests, the, but you seem to act as if only you are the priest, and we are under your authority. Once agai, if you say "you see" like that, you are the one with the most sin.

As for judging, you are clearly judging "after the outward appearance", and not the righteous judgment Jesus spoke of. You can't just claim that any judgment is righteous, especially when you can't even back it up with scripture. I said scripture, not how you think others are feeding the flesh with it. I don't see how you think you can even make that judgment for others. Can you read their thoughts?

Christian rock? Christian mud... Christian trees... Christian grass... Christian wildlife...
Christian rock is an oxymoron--no such thing as rock that's "Christian" no matter how you slice it.

Then what about "Christian classical"? Or "Christian traditional [17th/18th century style full stanza hyms, or whatever you call it]" Why are those any less oxymoronic? Just because of the culture they were produced by?

I don't know how many times I have to reiterate --- "Christian" lyrics don't make worldly music "Christian"--- it makes the gospel message worldy and "appealing" to the flesh--and that worldly gospel does not save.

What is appealing to the flesh? Just because a rhythm might be lively? You have not shown us anywhere where all God wants from us is to sit stiffly, or march (which is the rhythm of most of the traditional styles you all like. The other is WALTZ).

As SFIC said, God gives me the grace and the wisdom not to listen to that trash--therefore "Christian" hip-hop artists, and acoustic/surf artists do not have any of those seven principles of "spiritual" music--NONE of them.

Do you see what you're saying there? Because YOU feel God is giving you grace and wisdom not to listen to it, THEREFORE is does not have those 7 principles. In other words, this is what CAUSES the music not to be understandable, thankful, etc. You have just illustrated the whole problem. This is the ultimate proof that you are projecting your own convictions into the music, and then judging it based on that. Sorry, but you could be wrong, and you should at least give others who do not have your feelings more grace instead of calling it trash, and then questioning their salvation on top of it. We are not judged by you and your preferences, no matter how much you project them on God.

"The Christian with a Scriptural order and balance in his life emphasizes the spiritual first (Mt 6:33), the intellectual or emotional second (2Co 10:5), and the physical last (Ro 13:14). Consider also Pr 3:5-6 and Lu 12:31."
(Music in the Balanceby Frank Garlock and Kurt Woetzel, Copyright 1992, Majesty Music)

So they take a bunch of widely separated scriptures and paste them together into a lesson on the order of music. That is typical of the horrid prooftexting done in this issue, and it proves absolutely nothing. David did not just sit around contemplating in his worship. You're the ones using your own understanding and projecting it at everyone else (including God's preferences), and then judging, based on that, and not God's righteousness.
With all of this shoddy eisegesis, and God's name abused to cover people's own hangups, you all are the ones sowing to the flesh, whether you move your foot to the rhythm, or glue it to the floor. Remember, pride is of the flesh, not just physical sins.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

I have posted plenty of scripture showing the true child of God is not to have fellowship with things of the world, such as rock and roll which feeds the flesh instead of the spirit.

We are to be separated unto God. We are to look different than the world. 'Mortify therefore, the deeds of the flesh.'

There is just too much scripture that points to the christian coming out from amongst that which the flesh lusts after.

I have given an illustration of a 'camouflage christian', wanting to look good to the world and yet, still wanting to please God. I will share one more scripture from Acts 5... Peter said, 'We ought to obey God rather than man.'

Yes, it seems we have reached an impasse. You believe the music glorifies God and I believe it is a stench in His nostrils.

I will leave it at that.

That may be true, SFIC, and thank you for making us all aware at how Godly and Christ-like you really are. Your actions had clouded that a little bit. Glad you cleared it up.

Instead of agreeing to disagree, you are content to be disagreeable. That is, of course, your choice. Mine is to not do the same. So again, I apologize if I have offended you or your wife with my choice of words, my offensive and "stinky" music, and my lifestyle of worship.

AFTER A FEW MINUTES - You know what, I don't apologize to you for my worship. My worship is not for you, about you or to you. It is for the Father, and Him alone. The rest I'm still apologizing for though.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

'
You say I have not produced scripture to show that the rock music is of the devil? Can you show me scripture that it is not of the devil?

Sorry SFIC, but you can't prove a negative. You have made the positive assertion that rock music is from the Devil, so you have to burden of proof.

You seem to be spending a lot of time defending the world, I would rather warn the world than side up with them and find Christ turning me away on that great Judgment Day.

So now, you can lose your salvation and be turned away by Christ for listening to Christian rock (or any rock music). Interesting theology. Can you support it with scripture?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

One cannot lose one's salvation, but one can have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.

Jesus said many would come to Him claiming to have cast out devils in His name, prophesied in His name, and done many wonderful works in His name as well. Yet He will tell them that He never knew them. Not, 'I knew you once, but no longer knew you,' but, 'I never knew you.'

The pslamist said in chapter 66 of the book of Psalm. 'If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.' James said, 'Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.'

Paul wrote, '...what communion hath light with darkness?' and, 'Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.'

Many are still holding onto the world and thinking they are serving God by regular church attendance, Bible Study, tithing, even preaching; but are still very much in darkness to this day.

 

[Eric B]

And people can also think they are serving God because they listen to traditional hymns only, and still have only the form of godliness without the power. (In fact, this view on music focuses more on outward forms than anything else, as if that is what makes true godliness)

So saying that a person was never saved because of a style they listen to is no better than saying they lose salvation. Why does't the scriptures say "sing 17th-19th century Western hyms only, and you shall be saved"?

 

[Bro Tony]

'You are not a priest of God'

Excuse me? Last time I checked in the scripture, all of God's children were made kings and priests. As a matter of fact, Peter said I am of a royal priesthood. But aside from that, I was called of God to preach the gospel when I was saved in 1979 and after years of study and much prayer, I entered into full time ministry in 1988. I have ordination through the state of Virginia and New Life Tabernacle and also ordination through affiliates in Ohio as well.

I am not prideful as you would surmise, except the fact that my soul, as David's, boasts in the Lord my God.

Judgmental? As I said before, the Bible tells us to judge righteous judgment. Where? John 7:24.



You say I have not produced scripture to show that the rock music is of the devil? Can you show me scripture that it is not of the devil?


You seem to be spending a lot of time defending the world, I would rather warn the world than side up with them and find Christ turning me away on that great Judgment Day.

SFIC,

You have shown your lack of integrity. You have purposely misquoted what I said to make your point---this seems to be your regular mode of operation so you can misinterpret the Scripture to fit your narrow views. I did not say, "you are not a priest of God"--you have lied about what I said--re-read again I said "you are not the priest of the Word of God"
And I stand by it ---your warped view of the Scripture is not the final authority and your narrow judgments according to your faulty interpretation are meaningless. Your ordination is meaningless to this debate, but it would help if you would do some real study of God's Word before spewing your poison.

As far as your statement on me defending the world, you have no idea about my ministry. I spend my time sharing the Gospel and teaching people how to live in Christ. I would rather they have God's Word as their final authority and not some narrow pharisetical legalist who does even understand the basics of biblical hermenutics.

Your asinine question about can I show you one Scripture that says a style of music is not of the devil has been dealt with many times in other forums. You are the one making the claim the music is against Scripture---show us. I am not making those assertions and it is not incumbent on me to prove a negative. While you are taking classes to improve your hermenutics take one on logic too.

Finally, your so called "righteous judgment" would be better describe as self-righteous judgment.

Bro Tony

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The only poison I see in this thread is the poison from the mouths of my accusers.

 

[Bro Tony]

The only poison I see in this thread is the poison from the mouths of my accusers.

It must be nice to be the perpetual martyr of the Baptist Board Someone may get a few extra jewels in their crown

Bro Tony

 

[Aubre]

DragonNaturallySpeaking is acturally a lot better than when it was first introduced.

My first encounter with it was in 1996 and it was called DragonDictate Voice Recognition Software. Back then, it was an expensive software at $699.00. Today, you can get NaturallySpeaking for less than 100 and do a lot more. There are many books it uses to train your voice with, such as:

Dave Barry's 'Adventures In Cyberspace'; a comical look at computers.

It works great for me. I highly reccommend it.

When it first came out, it was incredibly resource intensive and required a pretty powerful machine to use - has it gotten better in that regard?

 

[gekko]

Linda said

I listen to "spiritual" music, gekko--not to so called called Christian rock, hip-hop, acoustic/surf artists(I have no idea what a surf artist is)--if the music does not have those seven principles, then I don't listen to it.

so... you dont listen to it. so how the heck do you know if it has those principles or not if you dont listen to it?

because of what other people say? why not listen to it yourself?
ya ya ya - you dont need to experience everything to beable to determine if its godly or not.

but for the more unclear topics - you should.

why not try listening to some audioadrenaline - newsboys - dctalk - mainstay - shawn macdonald - paul wright - michael watson - michael tait - sonic flood. hmm?

oh im sorry. you dont listen to ungodly music. as you probably would label these artists.

can't judge a book by its cover - in fact. you can't judge a book if you havn't even seen its cover - let alone the contents.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Aubre,

The VR software does not us as much resources as when it first came out. It still uses a considerable amount, but not half as bad as what it did.

 

[webdog]

The only poison I see in this thread is the poison from the mouths of my accusers.

Which is normally the case.

 

[Linda64]

Linda said



so... you dont listen to it. so how the heck do you know if it has those principles or not if you dont listen to it?

because of what other people say? why not listen to it yourself?
ya ya ya - you dont need to experience everything to beable to determine if its godly or not.

but for the more unclear topics - you should.

why not try listening to some audioadrenaline - newsboys - dctalk - mainstay - shawn macdonald - paul wright - michael watson - michael tait - sonic flood. hmm?

oh im sorry. you dont listen to ungodly music. as you probably would label these artists.

can't judge a book by its cover - in fact. you can't judge a book if you havn't even seen its cover - let alone the contents.

You are correct--I don't listen to that ungodly music--however, I have heard some of it--and I have heard enough to discern that it has NONE of those seven principles of "spiritual" music. One does not have to continually listen to such music to make a judgment call.

So when you say I can't judge a book by its cover because I haven't even seen its cover, you are the one making the judgment call on me--because I HAVE seen the cover--and the cover is worldly and ungodly. I will not sit and listen to that worldly and ungodly music--period.

 

[gekko]

ok.

I have heard some of it

now. Linda. listen to my question very carefully: of that "some of it" - what have you listened to? which bands? which style? where did you hear them? how long ago did you hear them?

if you answer those questions accordingly - i will be able to have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

thank you in advance.

p.s. i never said you havn't looked at the covers. i was simply making a point.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

I seldom comment to postings in the Music Forum because I don't care what anyone thinks about the type of music I listen to, but occasionally I take a peek as to what is being discussed.

It does me good, however, to read what SFIC and Linda64 are saying in this thread. It reminds me of the type of church I came out of. Basically if you don't agree with their style of music, or dress, or the Bible they use you must be "of the devil." Thank God he has delivered me for this type of self-righteousness ignorance that they revel in!

 

[Linda64]

ok.


now. Linda. listen to my question very carefully: of that "some of it" - what have you listened to? which bands? which style? where did you hear them? how long ago did you hear them?

if you answer those questions accordingly - i will be able to have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

thank you in advance.

p.s. i never said you havn't looked at the covers. i was simply making a point.

End of discussion---I said that one does not have to sit and listen continually to that music to make a judgment call. That music is sooooooooo bad, I have no desire to listen to any of it. Just by hearing "some of it" is enough to allow one to discern the worldly music from the "spiritual" music. You just don't get it, do you?? So go ahead and continue listening to your "so called Christian" rock--this disucssion is over and done with. It is fruitless to continue.

Your point has been noted--- you were making a judgment call.

 

[gekko]

you dont want to continue because you have no proof you've actually listened to any of the music i do.

i dont believe you have. you are judging a book by its cover by which you have not seen. i am saying that now.

you are quite legalistic when it comes to this argument. you do not understand that the bible does not talk about rock music. i at least understand that it doesn't.

1 corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

so to the rock audience - i will play rock music - that i may gain the rock audience