What can wash away my sin?

[Bro Tony]

Do you want that in value or the number of times each drumstick beats something in a measure? And if I miss my snare and whack the rim, does that count?

Man, you just lost me. The only thing I can play is the radio.:laugh: :smilewinkgrin:

Bro Tony

 

[Blammo]

1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

Something we can learn from this verse is music is spiritual. Lyrics alone don't make music good or bad, the music itself can be good or bad. If you don't see that in this verse, I will try to elaborate somehow. But, I really believe this verse shows that even music without lyrics has the power to influence.

 

[Bro Tony]

1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

Something we can learn from this verse is music is spiritual. Lyrics alone don't make music good or bad, the music itself can be good or bad. If you don't see that in this verse, I will try to elaborate somehow. But, I really believe this verse shows that even music without lyrics has the power to influence.

Hello Blammo,

Let's say that we agree on the point you made above. And I do believe music touches the emotions, not too sure about it touching the spiritual. Can the Holy Spirit use the music to touch our emotions and minister to our spiritual needs, I believe so.

But if we agree with this the next question must be how do you or I know which style of music is "of God" and the style that is "not of God"? And when one makes that statement what objective standard is used to determine such doctrine concerning music?

Bro Tony

 

[Diggin in da Word]

You may or may not hate sfiC and his wife, many attitudes as to his stance show a hatred though.

Also, telling someone they are deceived is not being hateful. Paul told people they were deceived, Jesus told people they were deceived. Why, he even told the Pharisees they were deceived (blind guides, straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.)

Yes, those who think satan did not corrupt the music are very much deceived. Those who think the music brings glory to God that appeals to the flesh are very much deceived.

 

[rbell]

DITW,

Yep, I said "last post" a second ago, but I have to remind you of your words...

You used my name, and then said: "Your hatred for him and his wife is very evident." If you examine these threads, you won't find ONE SHRED of hateful attitudes toward SFIC or his wife from me.

That, my friend, is a false accusation. And you're wrong for doing so. Please consider a retraction.

Now, I've been very specific, so I will bow out. Really.

 

[Bro Tony]

You may or may not hate sfiC and his wife, many attitudes as to his stance show a hatred though.

Also, telling someone they are deceived is not being hateful. Paul told people they were deceived, Jesus told people they were deceived. Why, he even told the Pharisees they were deceived (blind guides, straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.)

Yes, those who think satan did not corrupt the music are very much deceived. Those who think the music brings glory to God that appeals to the flesh are very much deceived.

And telling someone they are acting like a pharisee when they are is no more hateful than telling a brother they are deceived, a liberal, or drinking the cup of demons. The standard is the same--except for the "chosen" few who think their standards are God's standards. Those who think their preference for music is automatically God's preference are very much self deceived.

Bro Tony

 

[gekko]

Ok, then according to that line of thinking, when a rock and roller, or death metal artist plays just the music onstage without any lyrics, they are glorifying God? After all, according to you now, the music is not corrupt.

hmm. you've got a point there.

but - you still do not see it.

these secular artists are using music to portray an ungodly lifestyle through lyrics.

 

[gekko]

no answer has been recieved as to an example of "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs"

there is no need for an example of psalms - for they are in the word.

now. what kind of hymns did they sing in the old testament?
what instruments did they use?

what kind of spiritual songs did they sing?
what instruments did they use?

what are some modern day examples of what you think a "spiritual song" is?
what instruments are used?

 

[Blammo]

Let's say that we agree on the point you made above. And I do believe music touches the emotions, not too sure about it touching the spiritual. Can the Holy Spirit use the music to touch our emotions and minister to our spiritual needs, I believe so.

But if we agree with this the next question must be how do you or I know which style of music is "of God" and the style that is "not of God"? And when one makes that statement what objective standard is used to determine such doctrine concerning music?

Tony - I really appreciate your input on this topic, and I definately respect your opinion. That is a great question you asked and the best I can do to answer at this time is with this verse.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I think we need to be on guard. What emotions does the music inspire? What does it motivate us to do? Does it glorify God?

I realize, also, some music is rather neutral. For instance, I like to listen to Marty Robbins - Gun Fighter Ballads and Trail Songs. It doesn't glorify God, but it doesn't necessarily promote evil either.

 

[Bro Tony]

Blammo,

I would agree with what you have shared. It really is important to be walking in the Spirit and having biblical discernment in what we listen to and are involved in. I agree whole heartedly that our enemy is seeking to destroy. I think though Christians ought to be careful when they judge anothers servant. I think we need to let the Holy Spirit do what He does in the area of conviction, especially where the Bible is silent. And it is clearly silent on the style of music.

God Bless,

Bro Tony

 

[Blammo]

I think we need to let the Holy Spirit do what He does in the area of conviction, especially where the Bible is silent. And it is clearly silent on the style of music.

I couldn't agree more. I will add though, if we are not in church, not in the Word, and not in prayer, it is difficult for us to be led of the Spirit.

BTW, I am not accusing anyone who has posted on this thread of any of those "not ins". :thumbs:

 

[Bro Tony]

I will add though, if we are not in church, not in the Word, and not in prayer, it is difficult for us to be led of the Spirit.

:thumbs:

Amen---well said!!!

Bro Tony

 

[gekko]

amen Bro. Tony. i agree.
---

i wish to add this.

Ok, then according to that line of thinking, when a rock and roller, or death metal artist plays just the music onstage without any lyrics, they are glorifying God? After all, according to you now, the music is not corrupt.

when a secular group goes and plays their music - they are putting ungodly lyrics to the music.

i had never said that they were or weren't glorifying God when they play the intro's to their songs for instance.

i do not believe they are glorifying God with it - because they are using it to display a life of rebellion.
---

i do not believe that ungodly lyrics to a beat make the beat ungodly - neither do i believe it makes it Godly. for i could use the same beat that the next guy uses - and display a whole different message.

lets say i come up with the original music (lets pick piano as the instrument). and then the secular world borrowed it and put ungodly lyrics to it - and then it got popular and #1 on the MuchMusic list. but all along while this secular group borrowed my music and got popular off of it - nobody knows about who came up with it. the people think the secular group came up with the music. when in fact they borrowed it from me.

is my original music now ungodly? should i still play my original piece of music?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, neither can he know them. For they are foolishness unto him and they are spiritually discerned.

The world is not going to want to play godly music. The world prefers to walk in darkness because their deeds are evil.

If one writes music that appeals to the world so much that the world has to write ungodly lyrics to it, then apparently it was not meant for the body of Christ. The world does not seek the things of Christ.

 

[gekko]

Last point for me: saying that rock music is of the devil is like the mormons saying the blacks are of the devil. - there is no scriptural support

and this is where i will quit discussing this.

God bless!

(p.s. im just going to go listen to my music - listening to DJMaj right now. and play and record some Godly music.)

 

[Eric B]

Gekko and Eric B -

I agree with much of what you guys say. However, I do believe there is a line, and that line is closer to SFIC and Linda's side of the discussion.

I believe the motive is what counts. The motive should be to Glorify God for what He has done, what He is doing, or what He will do. I don't believe that is accomplished with "Death Metal". The whole package needs to be spiritual, not just the lyrics. If the lyrics and the artist are spiritual, shouldn't the music be spiritual as well? It's certainly not a matter of taste, (I'll grant you that), but the more we try to please the world, by becoming like the world, the less we have to offer the world. They already have Rock-n-Roll, shouldn't we give them something better?

I would agree on death metal too. Though I don't know if that makes "the line" closer to SFIC/Linda. Generally, anything with a backbeat is said to be "all the same thing", and basically as bad as death metal, to them, though SFIC and Linda haven't even expounded that much, the way Aaron used to..

Now earlier, he said:

Blammo, I am not in the 'old hymns only' camp. As a matter of fact, I have written many songs that I sing in the church.

The fact that I believe that rock and roll style songs and their ilk are from the devil does not mean I am 'old hymns only.' Nor is my wife 'old hymns only.'

But this is a case of "being more vocal about what they are against, then what they are for". I'm sure that these songs would still be written according to "traditional" standards.

 

[Eric B]

Joshua, gekko, Tony, Rbell, eric and others.

I have read the posts that sfiC has posted and nowhere did he say that those lyrics were ungodly. What is your agenda? All I have seen is you twisting his words and attacking him because you do not agree with the message.

Your hatred for him and his wife is very evident, even though you say you don't hate them. Just because you want to hold onto the ungodly music, another person is pharasetical? legalistic?.

I think it is the other way around. Those who advocate nothing wrong with the rock, hip-hop, and rap style songs in the church are too liberal... believing every seducing spirit.

sfiC has given plenty scripture to show we are not to look like the world. That includes our actions, our music, our talk... everything we do should reflect Christ rather than the world.

When I started reading your post, I thought you WERE a hip-hopper, and then when I saw you were criticizing us and "ungodly music" and defending SFIC, at first I thought it must be a joke or something.

Dude, your handle is straight hip-hop lingo!
I'm sure SFIC is looking at it and calling it "trash" and "ungodly" along with the music in discussion, and the KJVO's leading the anti-CCM crusade would as well, as they regard all street-lingo as "ungodly". I don't condemn it, but I just think that was ironic, and should be pointed out, plus it should make you think about siding with these people so fast.

 

[DHK]

Last point for me: saying that rock music is of the devil is like the mormons saying the blacks are of the devil. - there is no scriptural support

Of course the blacks are not of the devil. The very fact that the Mormons believed this demonstrated that their religion was of the devil.
Their religion is one of the most Satanic-inspired religions in the word.
They believe that God had a wife--a goddess from another planet.
--that Jesus was a created being.
--that Lucifer was his brother.
--that eventually we will all be gods
--In essence the summary of their religion is: as man is god was; as god is man will become.
It is a Satanic religion, and if you desrie to compare rock to Mormonism (a Satanic religion, even the devil himself) than so be it. At least that is what it sounds like you are doing.

To take your illustration a step further where it will make more sense to you:
You are comparing apples to oranges, and in ordrer to make the comparison fair you must understand that the Mormons are not Christian. That is why I gave you the description.
The unsaved Satanic religion of Mormonism says that the black are of the devil. So what? They are Satanic. Remeber. They are not Christians. What they say are out of a totally depraved nature. They go forth speaking lies.

Those that play rock music are mostly the unsaved. I am not speaking of the CCM artists here; I am speaking of the ones that they copy. CCM is a cheap imiitation of the world's music. The music didn't come from God; it came from the world. Worldly Christians copied the style from the world. It is worldly music, a style of music that comes from the unsaved depraved nature of man. It was not inspired by the Spirit of the living God. It was inspired by Satan himself. If you don't believe me ask Kurt Cobain, Marilyn Manson, etc. From there, there is a slippery slide down to what people "think" might be acceptable but is still considered rock. The question is: how close can you get to the world;s music and still be a disciple of Christ. "Whosoever shall be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."
DHK

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Amen, DHK!

 

[Eric B]

Well, as I have been pointing out, much of the so-called "Christian society" of the past, including its Fundamentalism, which devised these teaching on music thought that blacks were of the devil as well!! That's where the whole argument about the beat came from, and they were just as hard on jazz and other similar forms in the beginning of last century. The Mormons probably only copied the popular racial ideology of the day, and only put their own spin on it. But we forget that, and try to act as if the Mormons made it up. This should make everyone think, and realize that that society was just as worldly as any other, even if their music was plain and traditional, and there wasn't an open sexual revolution.
So yet again, the distinction that rock is worldly, and the older style isn't has yet to be proven