What Side Of The Fence Are You?

Okay, thanks. I'm not surprised due to how the question is worded. The terms are biased.

I believe what the Bible says: God draws men to Christ and man must respond.

The terms are biased towards those who think that man is regenerated before salvation.

 

The terms are biased because they are not in the Bible; they are manmade. And I think one side came up with these terms and defined them.

No, I won't reword it with only 2 questions. I said before and I still say that there should always be an option of "not sure," "neither," or "other."

The way God saves is a mystery to us because it involves the nature of God. There is no way for us to dissect how God saves, but that is what you are trying to do.

 

How about a little of both. I can see legitimate arguments for both. Of course many of the doctrine of grace fans always poo-poo this seeming contradiction but I'm perfectly comfortable resting on the fence.

 

I must admit that maybe I do not understand the whole meaning of Synergism or the consequences that I may have voted that way.

I just went by the words in the initial poll question.

Neither words are biblical anyway.

 

Neither word biblical?

I Cor. 3:9
we are labourers together (synergoi) with God

And one can find the words monergism/monergist in the Bible if one gets it mixed up with one's deluxe leatherbound edition of Elder Hassell's screed History of the Church of God, from the Creation to A.D. 1885.: Including Especially the History of the Kehukee Primitive Baptist Association.:laugh:

 

Ok, explain that a bit more on lay man terms

I think maybe your plowing the ground too deep here.

 

Farmer

I have always seen it this way. God provided the seed and the water if we don't plant or water than nothing will grow. It takes both if not then nothing will grow. If a farmer did nothing with what God gives him, he will not have a plant. If we did nothing with what God gave us then we would not have salvation.

It is not by grace that we are saved alone, but it is grace through faith in which this faith is given to us by God through His word. You can walk away and not be saved. You have only two roads to go to, through the word of God to believe and be saved or not and be condemned.

 

Yes, I'm happier that you admitted this. Thanks.

I, too, see that it is both ways. I've heard an illustration that as we enter heaven, there is a sign facing out that says, "You believed in Christ." On the other side, after you get in, it says "Chosen by God."

I may have the details not quite exact, but it was something like that.

However, I do not think we are regenerated before belief, however the Lord may be drawing us. Regeneration is being born again and being dwelt by the Holy Spirit. I do not see that happening before one has trusted Christ.

 

That pretty much sums up where I stand.

 

I have a question for all of you who voted for Monergism. Since God is acting "independently" what exactly does the scriptures mean when it talks about God patiently waiting, and his long suffering toward sinners? What is he waiting on if he is acting independently in salvation? Himself?

Please explain. Thanks

 

Still no answer?

 

John Calvin's Verse Commentary
2 Peter 3:9

9. But the Lord is not slack, or, delays not. He checks extreme and unreasonable haste by another reason, that is, that the Lord defers his coming that he might invite all mankind to repentance. For our minds are always prurient, and a doubt often creeps in, why he does not come sooner. But when we hear that the Lord, in delaying, shews a concern for our salvation, and that he defers the time because he has a care for us, there is no reason why we should any longer complain of tardiness. He is tardy who allows an occasion to pass by through slothfulness: there is nothing like this in God, who in the best manner regulates time to promote our salvation. And as to the duration of the whole world, we must think exactly the same as of the life of every individual; for God by prolonging time to each, sustains him that he may repent. In the like manner he does not hasten the end of the world, in order to give to all time to repent.

This is a very necessary admonition, so that we may learn to employ time aright, as we shall otherwise suffer a just punishment for our idleness.

Not willing that any should perish. So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost. But the order is to be noticed, that God is ready to receive all to repentance, so that none may perish; for in these words the way and manner of obtaining salvation is pointed out. Every one of us, therefore, who is desirous of salvation, must learn to enter in by this way.

But it may be asked, If God wishes none to perish, why is it that so many do perish? To this my answer is, that no mention is here made of the hidden purpose of God, according to which the reprobate are doomed to their own ruin, but only of his will as made known to us in the gospel. For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world. 1

But as the verb χωρὢσαι is often taken passively by the Greeks, no less suitable to this passage is the verb which I have put in the margin, that God would have all, who had been before wandering and scattered, to be gathered or come together to repentance.

 

I quoted Calvin because you are a Calvinist, right? You are going against the teachings of Calvin. Maybe you're not really a Calvinist after all? What else might he have been wrong about? Election?

:smilewinkgrin: