What's the point of Jesus dying for everyone?

"it" is the church :)

 

any goats in this verse? :)

 

Indeed

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

Matthew 25 gives us definitions of sheep and goats. It appears they are deemed sheep or goats based on their actions. So we are chosen based on foreknowledge?

I'm good, I'm good!!! Yay for me!!!

 

Have I posted this verse on this thread? :)

 

Post your passage and we will talk about it.

 

...yes...for ....

Going by this verse...are we to love our wife as we love the whole world? Are you going to tell your wife you love other ladies just as much as you love her?

Or...are we to love our wife in a very special way....just as Christ loved the Church...in that He gave Himself for it?

 

Would you look at the number of verses??? wow. :)

 

Last one tonight. going to bed.

Have fun. :)

 

Yes, Christ did give His life for the church. What the verse does NOT say is Christ gave His life for ONLY the church. That's eisegesis at it's best, and quite common amongst our calvie brethern.

 

I have almost no time lately as I am engaged in a tent crusade/Revival and beginning a new church work, so I haven't been here in a while. I most likely will only do this thread since I have to get off and look over tomarrows sermon and preperations.

Now what I love most about this verse James is that by itself (proof-text) you have a gem but in context it is nothing but cut glass. Let us see JUST WHAT the scripture says ;)
First verse address to whom this is being spoke to:

SO... it is addressed to an ALREADY EXISTING Church. But let us see something that is troubling about this church later on:

They are spirtually (as a church) BLIND, NAKED, POOR,... Aren't believers the exact opposite of these. Being clothed with the righteouness of Christ, No longer blinded by sin and darkness but able to see, and Rich in Christ Jesus, ext...
It looks like this Church is in a lost condition or at least or at least from many of its people in a lost condition that are making up the majority of this body/church.

Then we see your proof-text:

We do know that God/Jesus is speaking to the CHURCH of Laodicea here. But then He states for the Church to, Repent?? I thought only sinners are to repent, and believers are to confess our sins. (wait a minute... nope I can't find where scripture ever calls believers to repent). How can a sinner be zealous and repent. Repent - turning away / Confess - acknowledgment of a wrong or sin.
Something strange here about this church James. It is very odd indeed.

But notice what is said NEXT in the text concerning those whom God LOVES:

Jesus is standing OUTSIDE the Church and knocking that if 'any man' would open the door He would have a relationship.!.
But we see something most especially significant - The text goes from the Church in general to "any man" specifically.

The church body had fallen by the way side BECAUSE it was now filled with false professing believers. The term 'any man' shows this knocking and calling is given to all those lost individuals therein. WHy is He wasting His time? Cause He loves them and therefore is NOT wasting His breathe on 'any man'.

Look at the next verse:

Overcome? It is directly speaking to the lost condition of most of those in the Church at Laodicea, (an already establish body at one time) and those who 'overcome' is a direct reference to salvation as ascribed in the preceding verse and is correllary to these in 1 John.

So what we have is that God loves His church at Laodicea and is disiplining the Church because it is full of faithless or unsaved people.
BUT, we so see God calling to all of those in the church who are lost that they might be saved if they respond to His calling by asking if "any man hear my voice and open the door". Why?? Because He hates them?? No, James.

We see God loves His churches (as in distinct bodies as shown in Rev) but we also see God's love toward sinful man or the World by calling out to them to repent and open the door that they might be saved and thereby 'added to the Church'.

 

What is there to deal with???

God does not delight in rebelion and wickness...just as...
God also does not delight in the death of the wicked.

No one said God delights in wickedness which is what the world means - Sinful wicked mankind. But while we were yet sinners...:thumbs:

 

We talked about this before, and it still falls short of what you need.

The friends here is dealing specifically with His 11 disciples.
He prefaces WHO His friends are by saying "you are my friends IF YOU obey..." Not you are my friends because I call you so by by election (nor any form thereof).
But we know there are limited OT saints ever ascribed this title of "friend". We are not Servants/friends but Sons/servants.

Yet we see He was dieing for them (His 11) and the rest of His discourse shows His death (for their sakes) was for the strength, encouragement, faith, and love for him and each other.

However we do see this in scripture refer to us:

No friends here, only sinners and the ungodly for whom Christ died.

 

Why is it you can not grasp there is more than one type of love.

We are to love God
We are to love the brethren
We are to love our wives
We are to love our enimies
We are to love our families (mother, father, brothers, sisters, ext)

There is a preference in Love, however.
We are to love our families, and yet hate them at the same time hate them when compared to our love for God.

Just as scripture says "perfering one another" (or believers over others)

God loves the world (sinful and wicked mankind)
God loves His people.

It is not a contradiction but holds with the scriptural basis concerning love and a love that prefers over anything else.

 

Gotta stop for now. I need to get busy. Thanks James.

 

What about the verse that says that : For God so hated the nonelect that He has reserved a place of darkness for them , has given them over , has blinded their eyes , has hardened their hearts etc. that they might not turn and thereby be saved . That in fact it was His will for them not to be chosen for eternal life ? [ Actually not from a verse as such -- but gleaned from several passages . But you all knew that , didn't you ? --rip ]

 

Of course Rip, some out of context and some made up. (hated the nonelect??)

 

Face it....They are all gems Allan. :)

1st...I said nothing about hate in any of these passages....now did i? If you wish for me to address hate then let me know, for many more verses will be posted.

you said...

 

Yes...but you must not have took notes.

Like the servent thing..Allan..we are STILL servents of God. Read any letter Paul wrote and you will find this statement.

the point of Christ subject is...you are my friends...and for my friends..i will show you how much I love you. If statement was for the whole world, then the point was meaningless. This is the point of romans 9 and Malachi 1. Hate found in these passages is not the point. The point is love.

As is the point of the passage in John

Indeed. I do not deny this. But the election was not based on the works. Works are proof of salvation. See james ..the book..not me...on this. :)
And yet the point remains..does it not? He died for His friends..and the reason...for He loved them

 

Kinda like food...is it not? :)