.....he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth. Ro 9:18
Why can't men believe this outrageous truth?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Feb 25, 2011.
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Amen :thumbs:
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:thumbs: -
Notice the WHOM ? The text is not referring to a nation, but to individuals:
".....not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles"
Jews AND non-Jews. -
God hardens those who harden themselves toward God. Other than that He is willing that all come to Him for salvation.
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As Paul summarizes the chapter saying, "What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." Clearly, it is about individuals who make up these nations. So we agree! :thumbs: -
Scripture
He will have mercy on those who trust in His Son and harden those who don't so they will get no pleasure out of it. Anyone who turns to the Lord the veil will be removed and see God as He truly is.
God isn't showing mercy in some random choosing the scripture teaches those who trust in the Lord will not be put to shame, or be disappointed.
In His sovereignty God can choose how He wants to save us and man can do nothing to change it. They can even throw God sovereignty card in and even God will say what's it to you how I choose to save and make them my people who will live with me for eternity. -
You're of the erroneous notion that God's foreknowledge consists of Him looking into the future and seeing beforehand which men will do such and such, and upon that premise He then either brings them into this world as a vessel unto honor BECAUSE of their choice [ultimately], or a vessel unto dishonor BECAUSE of their choice [ultimately].
The text plainly says: “....it is not of him that willeth.....but of God that hath mercy.” -
I believed
If it wasn't for Calvinist I would still be walking around saying I am saved because I believed in Jesus. I do not hate Calvinist because they have changed my prospective in many ways.
I still don't see those scripture with his prospective.
It is the will of God that believers those who trust in His Son are saved, it is the choice of God that those who believe trust in His Son are saved. If it is by my will and decision then I can take the wide road and still get to heaven but it isn't only those who trust in His Son will be saved by the word of God.
It isn't my word, I didn't wake up one day and say I will trust in Jesus, if it wasn't for Jesus and His word I wouldn't have any faith that is a gift to have.
I am saved because of the word of God.
God hasn't only placed life before us by His word but death to those who do not believe trust in His Son have already been condemned for one reason only because they have not believed in Jesus trusted in Him. -
The Lord has chosen before the foundation of the world those whom He will save in time. The Lord has mercy on those He wants to mercy,and hardens those whom He so chooses to harden. It is His sovereign right as Lord. -
also included
See I am not aguing those who are there before the foundation of the world, in His sovereign choice He has also included with them those who have heard the Gospel of their salvation having believed to replace those who He disowned and not able to enter because of unbelief.
I am careful of what I believe if God did not spare these natural branches what makes me better than them? -
Why can't men believe this outrageous truth?
Ephesians 1
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
We are not given the details and/or the rules of order of the Triune counsel. Probably because we couldn't comprehend it anyway.
But we aren't asked to understand it.
Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
So even if you have a problem (or not) with Romans 9:18, Luke 10:20 is there.
Not to mention:
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
True, it's only for the thirsty who hear Him.
HankD -
John 3:16 - Does "world" mean "world?"
Well, does it? It does mean all living humans, hence, world... Man chooses to be saved or not, as the Spirit draws. -
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Thanks, I will stay on my toes here in baptist board. I know what I believe and I know why I believe it. For some strange reason we wll do not believe the same thing. :tongue3: I do love the saved of every belief. I just hope that we are all convinced in our own minds, for we are the only ones that will stand for us in the judgement.
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Yep, be ready to have words like "peverse" thrown your way.
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
And what do you mean by "every belief" ? Do you mean their theological belief ? Or credal belief ? or soteriological belief ?
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