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Why does God let us sin?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 24, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Is Calvinism's teaching of unconditional election an incentive enough for Calvinists to avoid sin? If they fall into sin, can't they just say that God withheld His grace to prevent them from sinning? I'm trying to be as fair as possible in asking this question.
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If faith comes from you, it is a work of the flesh that cannot save. Scripture however says it comes from Christ who is the author and finisher of our faith. Two entirely different things.
     
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But you trust in yourself to meet the supposed conditions for salvation. I do not. I trust in Christ, the author, and finisher of my faith and works of love follow.
     
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You don't know what you are talking about. Try supporting that with scripture., because it says no such thing. Faith comes from hearing the Word and reading the Word.
    Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    MB
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You cannot hear the word unless first born-again = saved.
    “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
     
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not true I trust in Christ Jesus and you should too.

    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness
    Works do nothing for Salvation.
    All you have to do Dave is call on His name. No where in scripture does it ever say we are saved with out faith..No where does it ever say Gentiles are elect. No where does it say there are two kinds of faith. Faith is believing and trusting from the heart and I trust Him with all my heart. There is nothing you can do to convince me of Calvinism..
    MB
     
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you furnish the faith from your sinful flesh, how do you know you have the true Christ? I know I do because He created the New Birth in me that bears witness with my spirit. That causes me to believe.
     
  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    That is just plain ignorant.
    You've taken this verse out of context. The things spoken of hear are the deep things of God and I hear and understand them babes in Christ do not understand them. This does not support inability. You do not understand them because you have tried to use this passage to mean something other than what it is saying. I'm done wasting time with you.You go ahead and keep it up I will not respond anymore.
    MB
     
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Actually some Calvinist here make the claim that there sin must be God who ordained it to happen.
    MB
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

    “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
     
  11. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You want us to believe what your theology has taught you but that is not what is in the bible. You keep saying that you are saved before you even believe, that is not scriptural. Only the calvinists think that way. So it seems like you follow calvin and not Christ Jesus. You have a different gospel.
     
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  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Actually you can not be sure of your faith. You have to hope that you were one of your so called elect. As you did nothing and what you think is just all in your mind, and who knows you may wake up one day and realize that you didn't ever believe.
     
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  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It's all over the bible, but you refuse to accept it. It was Calvin and Luther that used scripture to break the back of Catholicism's free-will doctrine. And they also proved the Papacy was the Antichrist. Why do you prefer Antichrist teaching to theirs?
     
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I experienced the New Birth and IT caused me to believe. What caused you to believe?
     
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    If you believe that the Papacy is the antichrist then that explains a lot. You need to study scripture not calvin & luther.
     
  16. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    What God told us would His creation. That's why we have no excuse for not knowing there is a God.
     
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  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    All of Protestantism knew the Papacy is the Antichrist. And you believe many of His doctrines if you believe in free will. This proves He still sits in the Temple of God through His false doctrines that rule especially in Evangelicalism today.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You cannot grasp spiritual truth unless born-again.
     
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Dispensationalism? The Catholics laid the groundwork for it. And many buy it hook, line and sinker.
     
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Actually you are wrong. Paul was among the first to mention dispensations of time.
    1Co_9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
    Eph_1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
    Eph_3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    Col_1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

    Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
    Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
    MB
     
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