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Why I am not a Calvinist....

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You are kidding, right? The word is τεταγμενοι which is a perfect, passive, participle.
     
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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What???? You have to pick one...is it perfect, passive or participle? It can't be all three at once.

    Not everyone can work with languages. Maybe you should leave the Greek to those of us with the Strongest Strong's.
     
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    We all know you are kidding, but there are some "Greek experts" on the forum who might think you are being sincere. Yes, they really are that ignorant.

    Yes. They spend $9 on a Strong's Concordance, with a really terrible lexicon attached to the end, and think that is better than 7 years of language study. Go figure.
     
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Most "mainstream" baptists are badly confused Reynolds. On that message Rogers was lame and responsible for misleading those willingly ignorant people.
     
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  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Your going to have to do more than make assertions without historical or Scriptural proof. There is not anything that I know that supports your thinking that Peter was writing to the Jews.

    Rather, the evidence is that he was writing to the church, and as the church the folks were alien in this world.

    I quoted you Scriptures. It is truly sad that you have so little insight into the Scripture presented that you would discard it with words such as "I doubt" and "All he is here referring to." Especially, when you are mistaken.

    Here is a link that will give you at least a tiny bit of insight:
    An Introduction To The Book Of 1 Peter


    Either you are not taking is matter seriously, or you have difficulty carrying the topic through the passage.

    What is presented in 1 Peter 1:3-5:
    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again ...​

    It is the Father who extends "His great mercy" and CAUSED us to be born again. Peter supports election and irresistible grace.

    ...to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.​

    The resurrection from the dead provided that inheritance and that inheritance is imperishable, undefiled, and will not fad away. To that end the believer has such an inheritance reserved in heaven, are protected by the power of God and that the salvation (ultimate reward for believers) is being readied to be revealed.

    This is, as you agree, a presentation of perseverance and preservation of the saints.

    Here is a companion passage from Ephesians 1. It is commonly used to also show the same areas in agreement with 1 Peter. It is not necessary for me to point out specifically that areas, but I will highlight some that you see the evidences of the Doctrines of Grace expressed in the writing of Paul, also:
    Ephesians 1:
    1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
    To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us.
    Now, it is past time that I leave this thread for a bit.

    I trust you will come to understand that the position of the Doctrines of Grace is not foreign to the Scriptures, but is by far that which represent the truth of the matter, far more then any other presentation.
     
  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    What message are you talking about?
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    My wife and I looked at three last week when I got home....we picked it apart....I let my wife pick out the falsehoods....then we listened to Dr. White, totally dismantle him.
    Reynolds I believe on many areas he probably helped people. This message was horrendous....I will look up the links and post them for you....You listen and let me know after hearing it for yourself...give me a minute I just got online...


     
    #107 Iconoclast, Feb 28, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Paul said "God is not partial" Rom 2:11 not even toward the elect vs non-elect
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    To a 5 pointer.
     
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I know nothing about Greek language. What amazes me is how drastically true experts disagree on its interpretation.
     
  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Really, what do you call a 3 or 4 pointer?
     
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    A non-cal.
     
  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I was not a particular fan of Adrian Rogers, but I do not think he was a clown. It is possible for someone to have a different view of soteriology than I have and yet for them to be honest, dedicated servants of Christ.
     
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  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    A Calvinist or an Arminian, maybe.

    TULIP does not encompass the entire range of Augustinian-Calvinist theology, much less of Reformed theology.
     
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  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    From the potters freedom;pg188,189
    The term appointed here is found in what is called a periphrastic construction.

    Luke uses the imperfect form of eimi together with the perfect passive participle. The result is the phrase must be translated as a "pluperfect".
    A pluperfect sense speaks of a completed action in the past, but unlike the perfect tense, the pluperfect does not contain the idea of a continuation of a past action into the present time.
    Therefore, the meaning of "appointed" refers to a past action.
    The only reason people suggest that the term be taken in such an unusual manneris because they do not wish to accept the teaching of the passage

    TC explained this to you
    Translation of Acts 13:48
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    Reading Acts 13:48, the greek text reads:

    ἀκούοντα δὲ τὰ ἔθνη ἔχαιρον καὶ ἐδόξαζον τὸν λόγον τοῦ Κυρίου καὶ ἐπίστευσαν ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον

    With implicit commas (according to the Interlinear Bible I am referencing) this reads:

    ἀκούοντα δὲ, τὰ ἔθνη ἐδόξαζον, καὶ ἐδόξαζον τὸν λόγον τοῦ Κυρίου, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον

    For the purposes of this question, I am focusing on the last sentence fragment:

    καὶ ἐπίστευσαν ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον

    Various translations translate this verse thusly:

    ...and all who had been appointed for eternal life believed. - NET

    ...and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers. - NRSV

    ...and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. - NIV

    ...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. - KJV

    ...and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. - NASB

    My understanding is that "τεταγμένοι" (translated in the above as ordained, appointed or destined) is a military term which means to arrange or to set in order.

    Assuming this is correct, why do all of the various translations render this in the above manner and not something along the lines of a rough translation of:

    and the many believers were put in order and organized for eternal life.

    Which could result in:

    When the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and praise the word of the Lord, and the many believers were put in order and organized for eternal life.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I am not his judge RSR....however it looks like he was helpful to many on various topics....when he turned to his anti cal mode his teaching was horrible. To be in a significant position and teach such shallow ideas is foul.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    JC Ryle and others had differing views on these things, but never erected false caricatures like these current men do.
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    There is no disagreement on the meaning of τεταγμενοι nor that it is a perfect, passive, participle.
     
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  19. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Erection of false caricatures is not limited to either "side." Simplistic "Calvinism" has made plenty of ludicrous attacks on Arminians, for example. And some Arminians have made erroneous and silly charges against Calvinists.
     
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  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    That has not been my experience. A new cal can be over zealous but the others will quickly move to correct such excess. I think that rarely happens in these other places.If you read the comments on the connect 316 website...it gives an indication of what is going on.
     
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