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Featured Why Reformed Christians Are Vulnerable To Social Justice

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Revmitchell, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Cultural Marxists such as Greear and Moore do not want the church involved except to vote for higher taxes and more welfare. There is no one in the USA without access to basic necessities so social justice is just a call for socialism/communism. Globalism has destroyed most of the US economy.

    Meanwhile, Red China has a massive fishing fleet off the coast of the Galapagos Islands, threatening Ecuador which is trying to move away from socialism. Socialism makes people poorer, as everyone knows.
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    This is what the Apostle Paul wrote to one of the poorest churches he had started:


    English Standard Version 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living. As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
     
  3. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    And? I'm not against there being requirements for people to work or actively be looking for work in order to continue to get support. (Unless of course they are disabled.) But when people need help even getting work in the first place, what are they to do. It's not wrong to give them a boost.

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  4. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever seen a homeless person? Then you have seen someone without access to basic necessities, be it shelter, food, or things needed in order to acquire a job (clothes, a cellphone, etc). I know people personally who are homeless or who have been homeless. You might want to rethink that statement, friendo.

    Quite a few people are only one disaster away from homelessness, myself included.

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  5. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Downtown Indianapolis is crawling with homeless. The state shut down the hospitals for the mentally ill under Evan Bayh. Churches cannot conduct rescue missions due to excessive government regulation so indianapolis only has one true rescue mission: Good News run by Fundamentalist Baptist who decline all government aid so that they can preach the gospel.

    Cultural marxism only is concerned about homelessness during GOP presidencies as we know from history. Homeless do not legally vote and so they are unimportant to the left. White liberals/socialists/communists think that they should speak for all blacks. Biden said that one is not black unless he votes Democrat. BLM has perhaps a majority of whites in their membership. No one believes that more of the Great Society welfare is anything but more government control. It is the failure of the Great Society that created this current disaster. The election of the Democrats will touch off another depression.
     
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  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Many are Postmillennial where making a better world for Jesus is high on that agenda. Even by force if necessary in some reconstructionist circles. Amillennialists on the other hand expect the worst before the Lord returns.
     
  7. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I am not a Postmillennialist, but the view you are describing is not in keeping with historic Postmillennialism. Postmillennialism teaches the victory of the gospel in society, not in making a better world for Jesus. I am not saying you believe this. I am just pointing out the fallacy some hold to when it comes to Postmillennialism.
     
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Today many want a violent revolution in the reconstructionist movement. If others think BLM will further Christ's kingdom on earth (Postmillennialism) it explains their support today.
     
  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, Greear has endorsed blm. Communists/progressives think that they speak for blacks because blacks are incapable.
     
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  10. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    It's not wrong, but it's also not required. There is a sub-group of people who know nothing other than working the free handouts system. There are others working the pan handling system. When offered a paying job, they refuse the opportunity.
    There are many non-profit organizations providing assistance. The one's I support are also teaching life skills and economic budgeting and entrepreneurship. These organizations train people to be self sufficient.
    Second, Christians are to assist fellow Christians in need. This is our primary goal. Helping pagans and atheists and other ideological groups comes next. By prioritizing our brothers and sisters we show community support and the world sees our care for the family. We then tell the world about reconciliation with our Father.
    The goal in this life is to reconcile people with God so that they can live eternally with God. To feed people on earth while they are comfortable and remain in rebellion is to slowly cook a frog so that they never know they are in danger. Let us have our priorities and may we individually use what God gives us in a wise fashion.
     
  11. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, no. We're commanded to help those in need, and that includes non-believers. What you're saying isn't Biblical, unless I'm missing something.

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  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the Church is not doing enough ... myself included.

    For the record, I know many homeless people and interact with them from time to time. Part of my job is to locate Wetland Boundaries, which means cutting paths through woods and along the edge parallel to a standing water body. I frequently encounter camps, either active or abandoned in those sorts of places and the residents are always curious what I am doing. So I tell them.

    Some have serious psychiatric issues that really need professional help and cannot or will not get the help they need. No government or “parachurch” program will help them against their will. Some simply choose the freedom of getting drunk and live in the woods when their girlfriend or someone else gets on their case about their drinking. Some have the monkey of addiction on their back and cannot break free (although many of them do want to be free). I have actually never yet met a homeless person there just because of “bad luck”. Metropolitan Ministries has two local shelters, one for women with children and one for single men, that I have visited (as part of an expansion project we were hired to work on), and there is a “battered women’s shelter” and a “teen runaway” shelter both located in secret locations to help their respective target audiences. Holy Ground is a shelter for recovering addicts or alcoholics that provides shelter and strict rules to those willing to get a job and work. So there are lots of “bandaids” available in my part of Florida.

    What is missing, in my opinion, is the personal investment by the individual members of the body of Christ. What is provided is good, but it is not enough.

    First, the Church is not called to save the world from itself. We are not called to feed all of the hungry or clothe all of the naked. The Church is called to care for the church and to draw the lost to Christ. To me, that means that we need to be making more of a personal investment in the needs of seekers than just our money. We need to be investing our time in them. We need to be investing our spiritual gifts in them. We need to be investing our love and fellowship in them. We need to be coming along side and acting as their encouragers and comforters and advisers. When they disappear, we need to go after them.

    I have done this with James as he struggles with crack addiction. It is hard. It is heartbreaking. It is VERY real. It is the most Christian thing that I have ever done. Rather than taking pride in my “good work”, I have learned utter humility from the experience. In many ways, James is a more honest Christian than I am.

    That sort of investment ... person to person ... is what will really create change. “I will make no offering to God that costs me nothing” - King David (a man after God’s own heart)
     
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  13. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    Yes,I am a recovered addict. I'm very familiar with addiction, though mine wasn't to substances. Addiction is often a symptom of something larger, rather than the cause itself. That said, treatment for addiction only works when the addict wants the help, and continues to accept it.
    One of the people I know who used to be homeless is a recovering addict, and the only reason he has any help at all or a place to stay is because my family supported him in getting disability for some medical and mental issues. I have another friend, currently homeless, who has five diagnosed mental illnesses. He's currently in the hospital in critical condition.

    Even in the cases where there is help available, it's often inaccessible or inadequate.



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  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Social Justice seems like a fine goal, equal opportunity whether black or white, tall or short, male or female. But the fly in the buttermilk is the means by which people try to achieve the goal. Do we persuade one another, providing factual information and objective analysis, or do we use compulsion, believe as I believe or die.

    Marxists, communists, liberals and progressives, no matter what they call themselves, all believe in using force to achieve their ends. Claiming to be "committed Christians" they are all for abortion. In the name of "man-made global warming" they wage war on capitalism. They say political power flows out of the barrel of a gun. Naturally the governed should not possess guns.
    Dictatorial elitists can be found in just about any group of people, it is a basic behavior trait of a subset of all humans.

    Representative government depends on the honesty of the representatives. But if the voters put "say one ;thing but do another" folks in charge, tyranny results. Did you see how the dictatorial elitists treated Bill Barr? Reclaiming my time as code for censorship .
     
  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Nothing has really changed. We all have it easy com0pared to those who came of age in the 1930s 40s and 50s.
     
    #55 Reynolds, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  16. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I agree and we have heard this materialistic gospel since the Great Depression.

    On the point of the churches, the federal government moved in on the rescue missions and regulated them out of the ability to be effective. Until the feds back off and get a life, the historical rescue missions are kaput. Well played, socialists.
     
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    We are not required to do it by force if the government. Its an individual requirement not a government requirement
     
  18. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    I never said it was, however I'm not convinced that the church is equipped to foot the bill for medical expenses, disabilities, and other needs that poor people may have. Not on a large enough scale. In the end it becomes necessary to have at least some government involvement.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    When you argue against those who oppose the excessive spending and placing people on a hyper reliance of government by saying we are required as Christians to help the poor then yea, you imply we are.
     
  20. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    Either build a large-scale organization that can supply the needs of the oppressed enough to help meet various needs and target different areas of difficulty, or expect the government and tax-payers to foot the bill to pick up where the church is inadequate. *shrug*
     
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