Will a Christian commit certain sins? PART TWO

[DHK]

Well, John is not the only one who spoke.

1Pe 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

That is a doctrinal statement. We are born agan by the Word of God (the gospel) and by the Spirit of God. It has nothing to do with sinless perfection.

 

[DHK]

Romans 6:
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Those are commands to be obeyed (Let not...).
It doesn't say that the Christian will be perfectly sinless.

 

[Brother Bob]

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Good luck

 

[DHK]

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Good luck

Context, Bob, Context! Remeber what I said about pulling verses out of context.
The Book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews some of them not saved, and thinking about returning to Judaism. The contrast throughout the Book of Hebrews is with a key word "better." It is a contrast between the Old covenantal system to a better and new covenant provided by the Lord Jesus Christ. If these Jews went back to offering sacrifices, back to the Old Mosaic system, there remained no more sacrifice for sins. Christ was the only sacrifice for sins. There was no other. There remained no more sacrifice for sins. The old sacrificial system had now ended. It had been done away with. There remained no more sacrifice for sins.

 

[IfbReformer]

No, every one of us sins. That is a known fact. God makes provision for forgiveness of sin.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The verb is in the present continuous tense, giving the sense of keep on continuing in sin. It may be possible for a Christian to commit adultery. That is entirely possible. But to go on and live a lifestyle of committing adultery, or an adulterous life, no a Christian does not do that. He does not live a life of sin. There will be at least some change in a person's life when he is born again. Even the thief on the cross stopped reviling Christ, rebuked the other thief, and then asked Christ to remember him. There was some change that took place in his life.

At the same time any Christian can lapse back into sin. We are not perfect. We sin. God knows that. That is why he has made a provision for. Someone once said that the most miserable person on the face of this world is a Christian outside of the will of God (or living in sin). God chastens His own.
They don't lose their salvation. They are eternally secure in Christ. There is nothing, absolutely nothing that can separate us from the love of Christ. He has given us eternal life and that eternal life can never be taken away. We are born again, and cannot be "unborn"--unrepentant sin or not.

A Christian does not live an ungodly lifestyle--does not continue to live in sin. He has repented, that is has turned from a sinful lifestyle and turned to God, submitting himself to Him.

AMEN DHK! This is perhaps the best summary of this issue - just keep cutting and pasting it and maybe Bob and others will finally understand that God actually forgives sin AFTER we are saved.

And no Bob, God's forgivness is not a "ticket to sin". Do you despise his forgiveness and mercy to us as believers? Do you think God is giving Christian's a ticket to sin by forgiving them when they sin after they are saved?

So if a preacher gets up and preaches that God can forgive any sin, and calls on his people to repent, whether they be believers or unbelievers - do you think he is giving the believers in his audience a ticket to sin?

I thank God that Paul shared the reality of the sin struggle in his own life knowing by the inspiration of God that some would come after him and attempt to teach sinless perfection or entire santification.

Romans 7:25
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Again - I repeat, just so when you response - God's complete forgiveness for any sin is not a license to sin, NONE OF US ARE SAYING THAT. This is a straw man argument on your part.

IFBReformer

 

[Brother Bob]

Context, Bob, Context! Remeber what I said about pulling verses out of context.
The Book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews some of them not saved, and thinking about returning to Judaism.

I see you learned something from me, except this sacrifice in Hebrews is Jesus Christ and it says so.
It still was written to Christians.

 

[Brother Bob]

AMEN DHK! This is perhaps the best summary of this issue - just keep cutting and pasting it and maybe Bob and others will finally understand that God actually forgives sin AFTER we are saved.

And no Bob, God's forgivness is not a "ticket to sin". Do you despise his forgiveness and mercy to us as believers? Do you think God is giving Christian's a ticket to sin by forgiving them when they sin after they are saved?

Your message is, I know you are sinners of all kind, come and believe and be born again, then you are covered by the blood and if you rape someone's wife, it is already covered.

Tell your congregation that you will try not too, but you want them to know that you are capable of raping their wives, so beware!
Then, see if you can find another church.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, I have no problem saying that a Christian is capable of committing any sin. I have and do say it, even in front of my own congregation. Yes I preach it publicly. Don't put words in my mouth. I resent that very much. Because I say that a Christian is capable (even me or you), is in no way an admission that I already have committed any of the aforesaid sins. Don't falsely accuse.__________________
DHK

Stop making up accusations I did not make. You said enough that I don't have to make up anything.

 

[Brother Bob]

ituttut;
Brother Bob, found what you failed to show as to covering in one of my post's. You say

ituttut; "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered."


BB; If the sins were forgiven at the cross and were covered by His blood, then why are they brought up again when committed years later to the point that some are saying that the "sin unto death" means physical death. That is a powerful punishment for something already forgiven.

Yours and others theology just does not make sense. They were covered at the cross and forgiven or they were not and you face a physical death over them. Which is it? This makes about as much sense as standing in the rain to blow dry your hair.

 

[Brother Bob]

DHK: At the same time any Christian can lapse back into sin. We are not perfect. We sin. God knows that. That is why he has made a provision for. Someone once said that the most miserable person on the face of this world is a Christian outside of the will of God (or living in sin). God chastens His own.
They don't lose their salvation. They are eternally secure in Christ. There is nothing, absolutely nothing that can separate us from the love of Christ. He has given us eternal life and that eternal life can never be taken away. We are born again, and cannot be "unborn"--unrepentant sin or not.

A Christian does not live an ungodly lifestyle--does not continue to live in sin. He has repented, that is has turned from a sinful lifestyle and turned to God, submitting himself to Him.

Here is an example saying a Christian is unrighteous and then righteous.IMO

If you won't hear me at least hear the words of the Lord.

Eze 18:24¶But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

 

[DHK]

Your message is, I know you are sinners of all kind, come and believe and be born again, then you are covered by the blood and if you rape someone's wife, it is already covered.

Tell your congregation that you will try not too, but you want them to know that you are capable of raping their wives, so beware!
Then, see if you can find another church.

Yes that is right. The summary of that message is not too far off from what I preach.
1. Once a person is born again, ALL their sins are covered by the blood: the past, present and the future--all of our sins are forgiven, no exceptions.
2. But beware. Every Christian still has that sin nature. And that sin nature will battle with your new nature. It is a battle that you will have until Christ comes again. If you don't submit to the Holy Spirit you are capable of committing any sin that anyone else is in this world is capable of committing. Thus Paul commands us to be filled with the Spirit. We sin. We are capable of sinning. We are capable of committing the worst of sins. But we also have the means of overcoming sin, unlike the world.

 

[DHK]

Here is an example saying a Christian is unrighteous and then righteous.IMO

If you won't hear me at least hear the words of the Lord.

Eze 18:24¶But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

He was speaking to Israel.
You won't even accept truths about David, a man after God's own heart, and then you want to impose upon me Scripture spoken to the nation of Israel. Kind of hypocritical aren't you?

 

[DHK]

If only your theology were true Bob; it would make evangelism sooooo easy!
I could approach a person this way:

After some discussion...If I could guarantee you a life without sin, no evil thoughts, no lies, freedom from all bad sinful habits such as smoking, freedom from any problems with anger, etc. If I could guarantee you that you could live with ease, a perfect and sinless life, would you take my offer? All you have to do is pray this prayer and invite Christ into your heart as your Saviour, and that is it. Once Jesus saves you, you will be free from sin. You will never sin again, guranteed. Brother Bob says so. It is his guarantee, sign and sealed on the Baptist Board.

 

[Brother Bob]

He was speaking to Israel.
You won't even accept truths about David, a man after God's own heart, and then you want to impose upon me Scripture spoken to the nation of Israel. Kind of hypocritical aren't you?__________________
DHK

If you use David to justify adultery, surely I can use Ezek to condemn it. I turned the use of the OT right back on you.

 

[Brother Bob]

After some discussion...If I could guarantee you a life without sin, no evil thoughts, no lies, freedom from all bad sinful habits such as smoking, freedom from any problems with anger, etc. If I could guarantee you that you could live with ease, a perfect and sinless life, would you take my offer? All you have to do is pray this prayer and invite Christ into your heart as your Saviour, and that is it. Once Jesus saves you, you will be free from sin. You will never sin again, guranteed. Brother Bob says so. It is his guarantee, sign and sealed on the Baptist Board.__________________
DHK

You can't even save your own self so I know for sure you are not able to save me and that is why I bypassed fellows like you and went to Jesus.
There used to be a natural High Priest but today Jesus is our High Priest and we don't have to go and make a beast offering.
Anybody who say, come up here and let me save you IMO is in need of a Savior himself.IMO

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

If only your theology were true Bob; it would make evangelism sooooo easy!
I could approach a person this way:

After some discussion...If I could guarantee you a life without sin, no evil thoughts, no lies, freedom from all bad sinful habits such as smoking, freedom from any problems with anger, etc. If I could guarantee you that you could live with ease, a perfect and sinless life, would you take my offer? All you have to do is pray this prayer and invite Christ into your heart as your Saviour, and that is it. Once Jesus saves you, you will be free from sin. You will never sin again, guranteed. Brother Bob says so. It is his guarantee, sign and sealed on the Baptist Board.

If your theology were correct it would be so easy to be saved for all of eternity. Say this simple prayer and then go back to living the same way you did before. You don't have to be born again or make tremendous sacrifices like the rich young ruler would have had to do. Heck, since "Lordship Salvation" is a heresy you don't have to make Christ the Lord of your life. So what has changed since your salvation. Nothing. What will you say when Christ turns to you at the Judgment and says:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

 

[DHK]

If your theology were correct it would be so easy to be saved for all of eternity. Say this simple prayer and then go back to living the same way you did before. You don't have to be born again or make tremendous sacrifices like the rich young ruler would have had to do. Heck, since "Lordship Salvation" is a heresy you don't have to make Christ the Lord of your life. So what has changed since your salvation. Nothing. What will you say when Christ turns to you at the Judgment and says:

Perhaps you don't know enough of my theology to make such a value judgement.
I believe that a man is saved by grace through faith.
I believe in the eternal security of the believer.
I don't believe in the extreme doctrinal errors of Joey Faust.
I believe that the blood of Christ is sufficient to atone for all my sins.
I stand before God justified by faith, and have peace with him.

Now those are the truths that I have been setting forth. Other than that why are you disagreeing with me?

 

[rbell]

Your message is, I know you are sinners of all kind, come and believe and be born again, then you are covered by the blood and if you rape someone's wife, it is already covered.

Tell your congregation that you will try not too, but you want them to know that you are capable of raping their wives, so beware!
Then, see if you can find another church.

Bob, I've tried to be patient, I really have.

But you have been asked time and time again to refrain from using these extreme and offensive examples. All they do is inflame. They do NOT better prove your point...those of us who are disagreeing with you point to other sins in the passages you quote--envy, dissention, and the like. You stay away from them, of course, because they don't prove your point.

But IMO these more vulgar examples--which constantly are in the realm of the sexual--are not necessary. You can make your point without constantly harping on them.

Why not use the example of coveting, or envy?

Of course...it doesn't carry the emotional heft and visceral reaction.

But could you please quit talking about raping other people's wives, and molesting our own kids? It's getting kind of sickening.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, I've tried to be patient, I really have.

The post was not to you. As a matter of fact you left the part off who I was posting too. It is not your job to take care of all the posts to everyone, and I hope you don't try for you will be pulling your hair out. Now, if I said this to you personally then you might have a reason to complain, but being it was posted in answer to someone else's post then I really don't see where it concerns you at all.

If it bothers you so much then you should distance yourself from those who have made such statements, not me for I don't believe in it.

People shouldn't say things on here they would be ashamed to say to their congregations, don't you think?

The whole world is talking about it, why can't I?

Southern Baptists urged to root out molesters
Advocates for sex abuse victims in Roman Catholic Church shift their focus

The Chicago-based Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests has started a campaign to call attention to alleged sex abuse committed by Southern Baptist ministers and concealed by churches.

SNAP presented a letter Monday to Southern Baptist Convention executive committee members in Nashville, asking the group to adopt a zero-tolerance policy on sex abuse and to create an independent review board to investigate molestation reports.

Its a shame that "outsiders" must play he role of Apostle Paul and tell the church to rid themselves of such.

 

[Amy.G]

rbell, if Christians are capable of committing these "sickening" sins, why shouldn't we be able to talk about it? These sins should sicken you. To say that a born again child of God who has the Holy Spirit dwelling in him is just as capable of doing these things as the unsaved heathen is sickening to me.