Featured Women deacons

OldRegular · Jan 26, 2013

Romans 16:1. I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

For those who may be interested.

Adam Clarke writes of the above:

Verse 1. I commend unto you Phoebe
As the apostle had not been at Rome previously to his writing this epistle, he could not have had a personal acquaintance with those members of the Church there to whom he sends these friendly salutations. It is likely that many of them were his own converts, who, in different parts of Asia Minor and Greece, had heard him preach the Gospel, and afterwards became settlers at Rome.

Phoebe is here termed a servant, diakonon, a deaconess of the Church at Cenchrea. There were deaconesses in the primitive Church, whose business it was to attend the female converts at baptism; to instruct the catechumens, or persons who were candidates for baptism; to visit the sick, and those who were in prison, and, in short, perform those religious offices for the female part of the Church which could not with propriety be performed by men. They were chosen in general out of the most experienced of the Church, and were ordinarily widows, who had borne children. Some ancient constitutions required them to be forty, others fifty, and others sixty years of age. It is evident that they were ordained to their office by the imposition of the hands of the bishop; and the form of prayer used on the occasion is extant in the apostolical constitutions. In the tenth or eleventh century the order became extinct in the Latin Church, but continued in the Greek Church till the end of the twelfth century. See Broughton's Dictionary, article deaconess.
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Matthew Henry writes of Romans 16:1, as follows:

Ver. 1.

Such remembrances as these are usual in letters between friends; and yet Paul, by the savouriness of his expressions, sanctifies these common compliments.

I. Here is the recommendation of a friend, by whom (as some think) this epistle was sent--one Phebe, Ro 16:1,2. It should seem that she was a person of quality and estate, who had business which called her to Rome, where she was a stranger; and therefore Paul recommends her to the acquaintance of the Christians there: an expression of his true friendship to her. Paul was as well skilled in the art of obliging as most men. True religion, rightly received, never made any man uncivil. Courtesy and Christianity agree well together. It is not in compliment to her, but in sincerity, that,

1. He gives a very good character of her.

(1.) As a sister to Paul: Phebe our sister; not in nature, but in grace; not in affinity or consanguinity, but in pure Christianity: his own sister in the faith of Christ, loving Paul, and beloved of him, with a pure and chaste and spiritual love, as a sister; for there is neither male nor female, but all are one in Christ Jesus, Ga 3:28. Both Christ and his apostles had some of their best friends among the devout (and upon that account honourable) women.

(2.) As a servant to the church at Cenchrea: diakonon, a servant by office, a stated servant, not to preach the word (that was forbidden to women), but in acts of charity and hospitality. Some think she was one of the widows that ministered to the sick and were taken into the church's number, 1Ti 5:9. But those were old and poor, whereas Phebe seems to have been a person of some account; and yet it was no disparagement to her to be a servant to the church. Probably they used to meet at her house, and she undertook the care of entertaining the ministers, especially strangers. Every one in his place should strive to serve the church, for therein he serves Christ, and it will turn to a good account another day. Cenchrea was a small sea-port town adjoining to Corinth, about twelve furlongs distant. Some think there was a church there, distinct from that at Corinth, though, being so near, it is very probable that the church of Corinth is called the church of Cenchrea, because their place of meeting might be there, on account of the great opposition to them in the city, (Ac 18:12), as at Philippi they met out of the city by the water side, Ac 16:13. So the reformed church of Paris might be called the church at Charenton, where they formerly met, out of the city.
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John Gill wrote about Romans 16:1, as follows:

Ver. 1. I commend unto you Phebe our sister, &c.]
This chapter chiefly consists of commendations and salutations of persons, and begins with the former. It was usual to give letters of commendation of a member of one church to those of another; see 2Co 3:1; The person who is here recommended was, as appears from the subscription of this epistle, if that may be depended on, the bearer of this letter, and is described by her name, Phebe; as she dwelt at Cenchrea, it is probable she was a Grecian, as is her name. Pausanias {e} makes frequent mention of one of this name in Greece. With the Heathen poets, Pheobus was the sun, and Phoebe the moon. Though it is not unlikely that she might be a Jewess, since there were many of them in those parts; and this was a name in use among them. We often read {f} of R. Ishmael ybap Nb, "ben Phoebi", which I take to be the same name with this. She is recommended as a sister, "our sister"; not in a natural, but spiritual relation; one that was a member of the church at Cenchrea, and in full communion with it; for as it was usual to call the men brethren, it was common to call the women sisters. Elderly men were called fathers, younger men brethren; elderly women were styled mothers, and younger women sisters, who were partakers of the grace of God, and enjoyed the fellowship of the saints:

which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea.
This place was a seaport of the Corinthians, distant from Corinth about seventy furlongs, or eight or nine miles: it was on one side of the Isthmus, as Lechea was on the other {g}; see Gill on "Ac 18:18". In the way to this place from the Isthmus, as Pausanias relates {h}, was the temple of Diana, and a very ancient sculpture; and in Cenchrea itself was the temple of Venus, and a wooden image; and near the flow of the sea was a Neptune of brass. But now, in this place, was a church of Jesus Christ; and since it was so near to Corinth, it shows that churches in those early times were not national, or provincial, but congregational. Of this church Phebe was a servant, or, as the word signifies, a minister or deacon; not that she was a teacher of the word, or preacher of the Gospel, for that was not allowed of by the apostle in the church at Corinth, that a woman should teach; see 1Co 14:34,35; and therefore would never be admitted at Cenchrea. Rather, as some think, she was a deaconess appointed by the church, to take care of the poor sisters of the church; though as they were usually poor, and ancient women; that were put into that service, and this woman, according to the account of her, being neither poor, nor very ancient; it seems rather, that being a rich and generous woman, she served or ministered to the church by relieving the poor; not out of the church's stock, as deaconesses did, but out of her own substance; and received the ministers of the Gospel, and all strangers, into her house, which was open to all Christians; and so was exceeding serviceable to that church, and to all the saints that came thither: though it is certain that among the ancient Christians there were women servants who were called ministers. Pliny, in an epistle of his to Trajan the emperor, says {i}, that he had examined two maids, "quae ministrae dicebantur", "who were called ministers", to know the truth of the Christian religion.
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Thomas Helwys · Jan 26, 2013

Jerome said: ↑

:null::null:
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Thank you for the scriptural accuracy.

go2church · Jan 27, 2013

Also of note MacArthur advocates for woman deacons in his commentary. I don't have a digital copy so you'll have to the looking

Jerome · Jan 27, 2013

Check out Mark Dever's ('9Marks') Capitol Hill Baptist Church:

capitolhillbaptist.org/we-are/led/deacons-deaconesses/

There's now a woman on the pastoral staff too.

Jerome · Jan 27, 2013

Video from Redeemer Presbyterian Church NYC (Pastor Tim Keller):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66rf7WMBmEk

"Deb is officially assuming the diaconal role this morning"

Skip to the very end of the video to hear the church's men vow to yield obedience to her.

OldRegular · Jan 27, 2013

Scripture is what it is, the Word of God; not the word of Paul, Peter, John, Isaiah, etc. Certain duties, roles are reserved for men. The men of the Tribe of Levi were set apart to do the services related to Temple worship in the Old Testament. The role of priests was reserved for the descendants of Aaron. The role of deacons and elders/preachers is reserved to men in the New Testament Church.

The increased role of women in the churches of today is simply an indication of the growing apostasy in the churches! Perhaps this is an indication of the final apostasy indicated by the woman called Babylon in the Book of Revelation, the woman who rides the beast!

Bronconagurski · Jan 27, 2013

OldRegular said: ↑

Scripture is what it is, the Word of God; not the word of Paul, Peter, John, Isaiah, etc. Certain duties, roles are reserved for men. The men of the Tribe of Levi were set apart to do the services related to Temple worship in the Old Testament. The role of priests was reserved for the descendants of Aaron. The role of deacons and elders/preachers is reserved to men in the New Testament Church.

The increased role of women in the churches of today is simply an indication of the growing apostasy in the churches! Perhaps this is an indication of the final apostasy indicated by the woman called Babylon in the Book of Revelation, the woman who rides the beast!
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Maybe so. Couple that with the fact that so-called Baptist churches are blaring out AC/DC and other rock bands at services, as well as the ecumenical movement that has reared up once again, this time trying to appease Islam. You have to see that the book of Ezekiel's prediction of the nations coming against Israel is right around the corner. Other Christians call pre-trib adherents Zionists, but imo, never has there been a time when the doctrine of the rapture of the church, which ushers in the tribulation period, made more sense. The U.S. is rapidly turning against Israel, and this will embolden other nations to take action, sooner than later, imo.

saturneptune · Jan 27, 2013

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Bronconagurski · Jan 27, 2013

saturneptune said: ↑

Just think, with same sex marriages being legal, now women can be deacons, as they can fulfill the requirement of having only one wife.
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That would be funny if not for the fact that some will surely make that argument. But in any real church, it will not come into play as they can not even have church membership because of their sinful lifestyle.

Thomas Helwys · Jan 27, 2013

Dr. Bob was quoted earlier in this thread. What he said was right. So the way some of you are interpreting the scripture you are using to support your position cannot be correct.

Bronconagurski · Jan 27, 2013

Thomas Helwys said: ↑

Dr. Bob was quoted earlier in this thread. What he said was right. So the way some of you are interpreting the scripture you are using to support your position cannot be correct.
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With all due respect to Dr. Bob, there are hundreds more with Dr. in front of their name that agree with 5solas. Scripture can not contradict scripture, a major rule in hermenutics. Phoebe could not possibly be the husband of one wife, therefore servant is the right word to use. That being said, churches are going to do what they want to do in this age of political correctness. Even so come Lord Jesus.

OldRegular · Jan 27, 2013

Bronconagurski said: ↑

With all due respect to Dr. Bob, there are hundreds more with Dr. in front of their name that agree with 5solas. Scripture can not contradict scripture, a major rule in hermenutics. Phoebe could not possibly be the husband of one wife, therefore servant is the right word to use. That being said, churches are going to do what they want to do in this age of political correctness. Even so come Lord Jesus.
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Very well said. The primary reason is because you are correct. Another reason is I agree with you.

That being said you and I, believing that Scripture does not contradict itself, can look at Scripture and come to the correct conclusion on this issue. You are sadly correct when you state:

churches are going to do what they want to do in this age of political correctness.
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Thomas Helwys · Jan 27, 2013

Here are the Dr. Bob quotes I referred to:

"Phoebe (a woman in the church at Cenchrea, neighbor to Corinth) is called by the MASCULINE TITLE "deacon" (not simply as a feminine form of the word, which would be a female servant)

Phoebe was a deacon. Even though I'm an historic ifb'er and have only male deacons, I can't change Romans 16.

It is the definite masculine word referring to the OFFICE."

That being the case, and since, as some of you say, scripture can't contradict itself, you must be wrong in your interpretations about the prohibition of women deacons.

Now that that is settled, we can indeed close the thread.

annsni · Jan 27, 2013

Thomas Helwys said: ↑

Here are the Dr. Bob quotes I referred to:

"Phoebe (a woman in the church at Cenchrea, neighbor to Corinth) is called by the MASCULINE TITLE "deacon" (not simply as a feminine form of the word, which would be a female servant)

Phoebe was a deacon. Even though I'm an historic ifb'er and have only male deacons, I can't change Romans 16.

It is the definite masculine word referring to the OFFICE."

That being the case, and since, as some of you say, scripture can't contradict itself, you must be wrong in your interpretations about the prohibition of women deacons.

Now that that is settled, we can indeed close the thread.
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So Dr. Bob is the final authority on this?

How about the fact that the word is translated as "servant" more often in Scripture than "deacon" such as in Philippians 1:1. I don't believe Paul and Timothy were deacons, were they?

If we decide that Scripture cannot contradict itself, yet say that Romans 16 is speaking of a woman deacon, yet 1 Timothy 3 states that it is only men who are deacons, then when we decide that Phoebe was a deacon, we allow for contradiction in the Scripture.

However, when we see that 1 Timothy has VERY clear directives on who can be a deacon, we can then look at Romans and know for sure that Phoebe did not fill that role because then Paul would have contradicted himself - and thus Scripture would be contradicting.

Bottom line: Phoebe is a deacon then the Scriptures err. Phoebe is not a deacon, Scriptures do not err.

Thomas Helwys · Jan 27, 2013

annsni said: ↑

So Dr. Bob is the final authority on this?

How about the fact that the word is translated as "servant" more often in Scripture than "deacon" such as in Philippians 1:1. I don't believe Paul and Timothy were deacons, were they?

If we decide that Scripture cannot contradict itself, yet say that Romans 16 is speaking of a woman deacon, yet 1 Timothy 3 states that it is only men who are deacons, then when we decide that Phoebe was a deacon, we allow for contradiction in the Scripture.

However, when we see that 1 Timothy has VERY clear directives on who can be a deacon, we can then look at Romans and know for sure that Phoebe did not fill that role because then Paul would have contradicted himself - and thus Scripture would be contradicting.

Bottom line: Phoebe is a deacon then the Scriptures err. Phoebe is not a deacon, Scriptures do not err.
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No, Dr. Bob is not the final authority. But Romans 16 means exactly as he states. That being the case, one has to look for another explanation of other verses which would seem to contradict the Romans one. I know it is uncomfortable to admit the truth about the Romans verse because that upsets some theological apple carts, but that verse can mean only one thing, as has been clearly shown.

Baptist Believer · Jan 28, 2013

Bronconagurski said: ↑

The reason being is that there are no qualifications listed in the bible for a deaconess, only deacons, who must be male like bishops.
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The qualifications for female deacons are found in 1 Timothy 3:11:
"Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things." (NASB)

There is no Greek word that specifically means "wives", so the most literal way to translate the word is "women."

An appeal to a deacon being "the husband of one woman" is lacking because women are not going to have wives and did not have the social standing to violate that standard in the culture. They were not in a position to divorce anyone nor have multiple spouses at the same time. As I understand the "husband of one woman" passage, Paul is describing a trait of character - "a one woman man." That is, a person who is devoted to his spouse and is not flirting or carrying on with other women. Since we live in a very different culture than the first century, we should also use the same standards for female deacons - she must not be a flirt or carry on with other men. She should be devoted to her husband if she is married.

An appeal to the idea that women should not have authority over men only reveals how messed up the concept of deacon has become in modern days. Deacons are servants of the church - not authorities or rulers. The only authority they wield is the moral and spiritual authority of being a person of character and service.

Our church has quite a few female deacons who serve the congregation and the community quite admirably for special needs, times of crisis, and day-to-day benevolence. They also participate in serving Communion and making guests to our worship service feel welcome and introducing them to members who have similar backgrounds and interests in order to get them connected.

USN2Pulpit · Jan 28, 2013

OldRegular said: ↑

In the Church women should not occupy the position of deacon, elder/pastor, or any other position where they exercise authority over men.
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But isn't it true that deacons are servants? They were not to exercise authority over anyone anyway. Deacons are not to serve as a board that rules the church, they are simply to serve. It is not to be treated as an exalted position, but one of humility.

Baptist Believer · Jan 28, 2013

USN2Pulpit said: ↑

But isn't it true that deacons are servants? They were not to exercise authority over anyone anyway. Deacons are not to serve as a board that rules the church, they are simply to serve. It is not to be treated as an exalted position, but one of humility.
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Absolutely!

The only thing I might add to your summation is that if a deacon is truly a servant, God will exalt him/her in the eyes of the congregation and community. But it is not about ecclesiastical authority.

annsni · Jan 28, 2013

Thomas Helwys said: ↑

No, Dr. Bob is not the final authority. But Romans 16 means exactly as he states. That being the case, one has to look for another explanation of other verses which would seem to contradict the Romans one. I know it is uncomfortable to admit the truth about the Romans verse because that upsets some theological apple carts, but that verse can mean only one thing, as has been clearly shown.
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So Romans 16 takes precedence over 1 Timothy 3?

annsni · Jan 28, 2013

Baptist Believer said: ↑

The qualifications for female deacons are found in 1 Timothy 3:11:
"Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things." (NASB)

There is no Greek word that specifically means "wives", so the most literal way to translate the word is "women."
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So the fact that Paul just said that deacons are to be men is thrown out because there is a directive to women too? When does "women" mean "deacon"?

An appeal to a deacon being "the husband of one woman" is lacking because women are not going to have wives and did not have the social standing to violate that standard in the culture. They were not in a position to divorce anyone nor have multiple spouses at the same time. As I understand the "husband of one woman" passage, Paul is describing a trait of character - "a one woman man." That is, a person who is devoted to his spouse and is not flirting or carrying on with other women. Since we live in a very different culture than the first century, we should also use the same standards for female deacons - she must not be a flirt or carry on with other men. She should be devoted to her husband if she is married.
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Since Paul specifically says that deacons are men (even if it means "a one woman man", there is still the pesky "man" thing there), you just cannot fit women into that qualification.

An appeal to the idea that women should not have authority over men only reveals how messed up the concept of deacon has become in modern days. Deacons are servants of the church - not authorities or rulers. The only authority they wield is the moral and spiritual authority of being a person of character and service.
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Yet Paul said that deacons are men.

Our church has quite a few female deacons who serve the congregation and the community quite admirably for special needs, times of crisis, and day-to-day benevolence. They also participate in serving Communion and making guests to our worship service feel welcome and introducing them to members who have similar backgrounds and interests in order to get them connected.
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That's wonderful. Do they have any spiritual authority over men?

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