Thank you so much Annsni for posting that. I especially like that Baptist pastor's statement that:
That is, of course, exactly what happened.
As I have repeatedly shown, even Fundamentalist Baptist churches were welcoming women teachers in the early twentieth century.
Brooklyn Daily Eagle ad, 1931:
Here's Miss Cristabel Pankhurst, teaching on Bible prophecy.
Sixth Avenue Baptist Church, a Fundamentalist Independent Baptist congregation
And a Washington Post article, 1940:
Miss Amy Lee Stockton teaching on "Today's Task and Tomorrow's Triumph".
This was her twelfth appearance at the church.
Yes, this is Metropolitan Baptist Church, now known as Capitol Hill Baptist Church (Pastor Mark Dever); according to their website the church has always been "doctrinally conservative".
women teachers
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by SolaSaint, Jan 9, 2011.
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Better to have a mediocre man teach than an outstanding woman.
While the Bible is abundantly clear that women are not to teach men, it's not heresy (now, if we're talking a woman pastor, then, yes, you need to leave). I wouldn't attend that Sunday School class and I would make my concerns known to the pastor, but if the church is teaching sound doctrine and meets other Biblical criteria, then I wouldn't have a problem staying in the church.
On the other hand, if it's really a thorn in your conscience, especially if you feel that it's going to cause a division between you and the church or that your disagreement is going to cause division, then it would be better if you left.
Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. I'm on enough cold medicine to bring down a bull elephant. -
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If that's all I can get, I'll just stay home and do my own studying. -
I agree with you JDF. I hope you feel better soon!! I'm on week 5.5 of being sick - and my throat is beginning to hurt again which is how the last illness got me. I STILL don't have my voice fully back, much to the glee of my husband and children. ;) -
On the other hand the book I mentioned does have many references to the Bible verses on the subject. -
That includes putting ourselves under the guidance of our pastor, who is a learned man and in the position of guiding the church and teaching us what he has learned.
I find that makes very good sense!
I've gotta repeat this...EEWW!
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Jim1999 said: ↑The scripture is clear to some, but not to all, on a woman assuming leadership. My group of baptists will only accept men as pastors, and yet our seminary had a woman teaching Hebrew. Now pay mind, she was teaching pastors the Bible in Hebrew and was well received. So, where do we draw that line again?? Hmmmm
Cheers,
JimClick to expand...
I can anticipate the response--Yeah, here's a brilliant Hebrew scholar, and you won't let her use her teaching gift in church.
Actually, she can teach all the women and children in the church.
The brilliance of her gift is beside the point. -
You fail to separate God's teaching and cultural runoff. Check out thoroughly the story of Phoebe, the stories of Ruth and Esther, and many more women leaders of God's people.
Check out the problems with particular women in that church. Why don't women to-day have long hair, as that same scripture intones? Why aren't wives silent..and I mean silent, as that scriptures supposedly teaches, and get their information at home?
By he way, going back to what you said, it would be ok for a woman to preach the word to men at home, just don't do it in a church. I got your point, and we should be wearing sandals and long gowns. Women should be sitting in the balconies.
Cheers,
Jim -
What directions to the church in Scripture do we explain away as cultural? Besides the woman pastor thing?
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For those who think women are not to teach men...
Are you people saying a woman is prohibited from ever teaching a man anything? anywhere? anytime?
...Bob -
The Scriptures are plain on this issue. Some just think they're smarter and more wise than Almighty God and His Word. I'll stick to the Book. No women teachers or preachers for us. The next step for these churches is ordaining of h*m*sectuals. Not all, but to many, yep.
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annsni said: ↑Well, we're not IFB but IB and it's taught from the pulpit and in classes as well. It's a general teaching of our church.Click to expand...
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I have sat under many a woman who taught the word of God and did a good job. Same with a man.
I have sat under many a woman who couldn't teach the word of God. Same with a man.
If they don't teach well or the right things, I go to another class. If there is consistently bad teaching, I go to another church. -
Here is a free online book in PDF form on the subject
Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood - A Response to Evangelical Feminism
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annsni said: ↑What directions to the church in Scripture do we explain away as cultural? Besides the woman pastor thing?Click to expand...
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel... -
F,F. Bruce on females in scripture:
http://www.christchurchreformed.com...03 (014 Female Pastors and Homosexuality).htm -
http://www.cbeinternational.org/
link for a perspective from the other side -
Jim1999 said: ↑F,F. Bruce on females in scripture:
http://www.christchurchreformed.com...03 (014 Female Pastors and Homosexuality).htmClick to expand...
From the website referenced above, the authors who quote F.F. Bruce also point out the dangers of extending human logic further and further...
C. A more literal translation of Galatians 3:28, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is not/no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
a. Exegetes not only argue that the Mosaic, social and ecclesiological distinctions between male and female have been eradicated. They are now beginning to argue that the biological distinctions between male and female have been eradicated (an androgynous church). “What he says is that there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, no male and female. I think the reason he says “no male and female” rather than “neither male nor female” is that he is actually quoting Genesis 1:27” (N.T. Wright, “The Biblical Basis for Women’s Service in the Church”).
b. Exegetes have pointed out that Galatians 3:28 trumps other Pauline texts on women (e.g. F.F. Bruce). Now they are doing the same thing for other Pauline texts of marriage and homosexuality.
i. It is argued that when Paul says there is “no male nor female” he is quoting Genesis 1:27.
ii. If there is no male and female when it comes to church offices then why is there a distinction between male and female when it comes to marriage?Click to expand...
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