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Worship the Holy Ghost With Father & Son?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Hark, Feb 3, 2021.

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  1. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    It does not, brother. Comforter is not the same thing as an Advocate. Only Jesus is at that throne of grace whereas the Holy Spirit dwells in us.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. KJV

    The latter part of that verse confirms that the Holy Spirit will only use the words of Christ in teaching us.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You are wrong. 1 John 2:1, "advocate" is the Greek word parakletos, exactly the same word as the one translated "Comforter" in John 14:26.
     
  3. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Not when the office of advocate is defined by what He does in the context of that verse for why He is the only One that does it..

    1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. KJV

    That is why He is our Advocate as He is the propitiation for our sin. That is why He alone is at that throne of grace & He alone is the only Mediator between God & men.

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    That means Jesus takes our intercessions, the Spirit's unspoken intercessions, & His own intercessions to the father and when the father says yes to any of those intercession, the Son answers the prayer so the father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers & receive thanks in Jesus's name.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me..... 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

    All that the Holy Spirit does in speaking words from Jesus Christ & the fruits of righteousness are from Jesus also, so are the gifts of the Spirit because Jesus is the Head of the Church, the Savior of the body for why the Holy Spirit gives all the credit & glory to Jesus Christ..

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    Let also us consider the Greek word pneuma from which we translate holy Spirit from. Does everything relates to the Holy Spirit regarding that word from Strong's Concordance?

    "from pnew - pneo 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare yuch - psuche 5590."

    So how it is used in the verse is how we apply definitions. That means Greek word parakletos, does not all refer to the Holy Spirit, especially when the Holy Spirit is not the propitiation for our sins, now is He so how can He serve as an Advocate between us & the Father? So Comforter & Advocate as defined from parakletos do not exactly refer to the same role, when the Comforter is described as one that teaches & bring into remembrance all things that Jesus has said unto us.

    Discernment & wisdom from the Lord Jesus Christ is needed for you to see this, John. Only God can cause the increase.

    James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

    Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Inspired scripture do call Him an Advocate, which makes sense, as Jesus stated that another just like Him but not Him would now be with us in His place!
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You kept making it sound like the Holy Spirit is just an Errand boy for Jesus, and not also God!
     
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  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You are not my teacher. The Holy Spirit is.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Hark does not seem to think that the Holy Spirit can teach to you anything, not unless Jesus gives Him instruction first!
     
  8. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Never said I was but I did ask you to confirm with Jesus Christ at that throne of grace for wisdom & understanding His words. And seeing how the Holy Spirit teaches by the words of Christ is why I am referring you to go before that throne of grace in prayer.
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    This is a debate site. However, your words set you up as one who considers himself/herself a teacher rather than a debater. You do not have the standing to tell me how to find truth in the Word of God. Many others do have that standing, but I don't even know you except for these few interactions here on the Internet. So don't tell me how I need to learn truth. That is offensive.
     
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  10. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit can only relay the words of Christ Jesus in being the Spirit of Christ now since Jesus Christ has risen & has ascended to Heaven.

    You need to take time out and study His words in the KJV by asking Jesus Christ, your personal Good Shepherd, to teach you what He meant.

    John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    I cannot do it for you regardless of appearing as a teacher to you, because the same goes for Paul as a teacher or as an apostle.

    1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

    That means Paul wants every believer to prove everything, as confirming the truth in His words by Jesus Christ
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is the Holy Spirit a separate and distinct person from Jesus then, also Himself fully God? He is also called the Spirit of the Father.....
     
  12. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Now the Holy Spirit is serving as the Spirit of Christ.

    Discern with Him the scripture in what He is saying about the Holy Spirit as I am reading it plainly as saying.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

    In all Bible versions, the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own authority, or initiative, and the NIV understood that to mean He can only speak what He hears.

    John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

    Compare what other bible versions are saying what John 16:13 means.

    John 16:13
    The Spirit of truth will come and guide you in all truth. He will not speak His own words to you; He will speak what He hears, revealing to you the things to come .. The Voice

    John 16:13
    When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ESV

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. ASV

    So the Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself but speak what He hears as the words are not His own words but from Christ Jesus as we read on in the KJV.


    John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV

    That which the Holy Spirit gives to us, comes from Jesus Christ. All that the Holy Spirit does, the Holy Spirit gives that credit & glory to the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

    The fruits of the Spirit aka the fruits of righteousness comes from Jesus Christ as Jesus Christ is the One that will finish His work in us to the glory of God the Father.

    Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. KJV

    So whenever scripture testify to the Spirit speaking, it is under the understanding of how Jesus said He will speak in the first place as not from Himself as if they are His own words but speaking the words from Christ as all that He does is per Jesus Christ as the Head of the body & our Good Shepherd & Bridegroom to the glory of God the Father.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He replaced Jesus as being the Person of the Trinity now abiding with and in us!
     
  14. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Who is the Holy Spirit testifying of to seek the glory of and Who is the Holy Spirit pointing to for sinners & saved believers to keep going to in living that reconciled relationship with the Father by??

    Whom are you married to? Who is the Bridegroom? Who are you looking for to appear? Then that is Who the Holy Spirit is pointing you to still as a saved believer.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Who is the One sealing us and indwelling us?
     
  16. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ as God dwells in us including the Holy Spirit & the Father.

    Mark 1:8I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

    2 Corinthians 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

    2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. .......23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him....26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus is now the great High priest at right hand of the father, while the Spirit here in us and in the earth!
     
  18. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The understanding that he is receiving concerning the Holy Spirit is not coming from Jesus!
     
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, with us as by the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus is right now reserved in heaven until His second coming!
     
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