1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Young Earth - Old Earth

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Dec 24, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    9,316
    Likes Received:
    125
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, actually, death didn't enter the present arrangement of earth til Eve & Adam sinned. But it was certainly in past arrangements.

    Remember, Scripture says God's spirit moved over THE FACE OF THE WATERS, proving earth was already in existence. it's not a matter of believing the Bible. There was no one to write Scripture to or about til God made man.
     
  2. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    191
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yeah, I sort of know what entropy is; basically, it’s unusable energy. It’s a basic feature of thermodynamics. I was asking about the “entropy idea,” that is, there not being any such thing as entropy in the universe until the fall. I would seriously question that, but I’m thinking that maybe I shouldn’t have asked.:Unsure
     
  3. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,289
    Likes Received:
    730
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You seem to hold that theory that there were two creations and that death was in the first. So what is your Scriptural evidence and what is your scientific evidence for such a thing?

    Are you talking about a creation of Satan?
     
  4. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    191
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don’t know that much can be settled in this thread, but there are some simple, basic reasons why I can accept an old universe and earth.
    1. The opening verses of Genesis easily allow that understanding. The heavens and earth exist before the six “days” are mentioned, thus maintaining ex nihilo.
    2. According to plenty of Hebrew scholars, even the “days” can be long periods.
    3. The Bible does not make an issue of it. It’s never the point. It’s just another case of harmonizing scripture with natural discovery, similar to the Sun-Earth centrality debate, which took a while to resolve, and was in the favor of the non-obvious biblically.
    4. By far, the best scientific arguments are on the side of old, which is actually really young from a non-theistic perspective. Time is just not on their side.
    5. Doing so means I can focus on the real debate with non-theists, and they have some major (fatal) flaws in their reasoning.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    9,316
    Likes Received:
    125
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, actually, no one here is denying the flood, nor denying it wasn't violent in places. But again, if it had been violent enough to have carried away the rest of that small volcano, it woulda carried the tower off as well.

    And the tower IS eroding, but very slowly, as there's not much rain on it, and its rock is quite-hard. Sorry, but it's obvious that the tower itself would not have survived a violent removal of its surrounding mountain.
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    9,316
    Likes Received:
    125
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The scientific evidence for OE is MASSIVE, from the distance of the stars & the speeda light, to the gradual erosion of mountains & other geological evidence, to the fossil records.. The Scriptural evidence is plain - God re-arranged an ALREADY-EXISTING earth.
     
  7. lewlew

    lewlew New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  8. lewlew

    lewlew New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  9. lewlew

    lewlew New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The bible says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". So he created the earth to be without form and void....it was after he created it that God moved upon the face of the waters. You have it backwards, in my opinion.
     
  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,289
    Likes Received:
    730
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Now how could it have been washed away with the looser stuff? We have canyons because water swept through and took the loose stuff but left the walls of canyons. By your reasoning the surface of the earth would be smooth.
     
  11. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,289
    Likes Received:
    730
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Exactly right! The earth was first a ball of water and then God called the land to the surface. Some of that water comes back during the Genesis Flood in my opinion and then it drained into the newly formed oceans as the land was broken into seven continents.
     
  12. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,289
    Likes Received:
    730
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I guess that this is the soft gap theory.

    The speed of light is against you because 14.5 billion years does not allow light to reach all points in the universe. Putting a telescope in space opened up new vistas.

    Geology is also against you. Scientific advances from Mt. St. Helens , for example, show that layers form in seconds and canyons in hours. DNA has discarded evolution so only deep time is still widelt advocated but deep time also has huge scientific problems.
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    23,717
    Likes Received:
    1,855
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Oh right, guess its not a miracle then... :)
     
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    23,717
    Likes Received:
    1,855
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Right. Its the answer the world has for the end of the universe.

    Guess they can't fit the New Jerusalem into the picture puzzle.
     
  15. lewlew

    lewlew New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  16. rockytopva

    rockytopva Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    18
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I believe that the fall of Lucifer instigated the big bang that happened some 15 billion years ago....

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1

    Space and mass - Nothing else


    And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. - Genesis 1:2

    Space and mass - Nothing else

    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1:3

    As m = E/c2 so the mass dissociates into energy and light flowing out as plasma from a point of origins forming into what elements the Father willed it to.

    ***
    I believe that 15 billion years transpired between Genesis 1:3-4***

    And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. - Genesis 1:4

    Keep in mind that the first day has not occurred yet. By dividing the light from the darkness the earth is put in orbit around the sun, dividing the light from the darkness, making the first day.

    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:5

    Now we are ready for the first day and the seven day creation story... 15 billion years from the time that God said, "Let there be light!" Now for Genesis 1:6-8

    --------------------------------------------

    From there we have three earth ages...

    1. The first earth age
    2. The middle ages
    3.The seven church ages

    The first earth age...
    [​IMG]

    The seven church ages...

    [​IMG]
    --------------------------------------------

    As seven is a number of perfection, so God is going to allow the Earth to exist 6,000 years, with about a 400 year extension, this I take as days of grace. This will be followed by a millennial of peace when Lucifer will be vanished for a thousand years from the planet Earth. So the final amount of earth years, about 7,000 years, maybe a little more taking in to account there may be days of grace.
    --------------------------------------------

    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

    For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. - Isaiah 65:17

    As m (mass) = E/c2 (plasma) so the elements will disassociate back into the energy and light from whence they were created and return back to God. God then will use that energy to recreate a new heaven and earth...

    But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. - 1 Peter 4:13

    The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: - 1 Peter 5:1

    For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. - Romans 8:18

    So God has not revealed what he is going to do with that enormous amount of energy and light that will return to him through the disassociation of the universe. But I do believe that it will be glorious, and that we saints of God who have weathered the trials of this Earth will be glad on our arrival.
     
  17. lewlew

    lewlew New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It has been proven that uranium dating can only go back so far, and definitely not millions. There is no way to test millions nor billions of years in a test lab....so therefore is not proven.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. lewlew

    lewlew New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Rocky...

    He will come like a thief in the night for the unsaved. For the saved, we will not know the hour nor the day, but we will know the season, and it will be after the anti Christ reveals himself. Read Matthew 24 Jesus explains it all. He tells us to "watch". Why would he tell us to "watch" if it will be like a thief in the night. It is AFTER the tribulation that the sun and moon will darken and God's wrath will rain down on the earth. We believers will not escape tribulation, nowhere does the bible say that we will. But we will escape God's wrath. Those who believe in a pretrib rapture ....many will be deceived into thinking it is Christ's 2nd coming by the Anti-Christ. Don't be fooled by the PreTrib rapture doctrine, it is false doctrine!
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    199
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Definitely young earth, 6,000 years and some change, more or less.


    -Fossil evidence has been found in Texas with human footprints in the same fossil strata as "dinosaur" prints...evidence which has been suppressed by the scientific community-at-large for decades now.
    -Large lizards are mentioned in the book of Job.
    -"Sabre-toothed cat" remains being found within the last 200 years, and being mentioned in legend as recently as 1,000 years ago, as an estimate...check stories about the La Brea Tar Pits and some "Indian" legends.
    -"Woolly Mammoths" cited in differing tribes' legends in both North America of 1,000 years ago, and Siberia, if memory serves.
    -Coelacanths, thought extinct and relegated to fossil record, have been caught as recently as 1998...not generally discussed, but evidence is available.
    -There are photographs of plesiosaurs caught by Japanese fishermen...discounted as hoaxes, of course. ;)
    -Mountains and canyons where the fossil records have literally been turned upside down...
    -"Blow craters" in eastern Washington state that corroborate the Biblical story of the fountains of the deep being broken up.
    -The "Mid-Atlantic Ridge" and the underwater mountain range that encircles the Earth on the ocean floor, resulting in volcanic vents in many places...same as above.
    -The Moon's face toward's Earth being pockmarked like a shotgun hit it...again, corroborating the "shotgun theory" of the waters being broken up and blowing into the earth's atmosphere and beyond.
    -Comet theory suggests that the water originated on Earth during the explosive upheavals of the Flood.
    -"The Loch Ness Monster" being a trapped plesiosaur and its family...I'm not sure about that legend, as stories can be invented out of thin air, or spurious sightings of the unknown that generate conjecture.
    -"The Lake Champlain sightings"...same as above.
    -Noah's Ark is on Mount Arrarat...they have countless photos, and expeditions have been there recently, from my understanding; The subject gets downplayed immensely, especially be those who seek to disprove the Bible, IMO.


    In my opinion, there are far too many variables that cannot be explained by man's so-called "science", such as fossilization only occurring under rapid and intense pressure, not over "millions of years" as once thought, and there are far too many discoveries being suppressed and discounted for man's scientific theories to be bullet-proof.


    I trust the Lord to be accurate, and men to be liars. :)


    Conclusion:

    Mankind as a whole, continues to deny the Lord's existence and right to command him, yet the evidence all around him condemns him.
    They also deny the truth of Scripture, and seek to put it away from them.:oops:



    I praise the Lord for making a believer out of me. :)
     
    #59 Dave Gilbert, Dec 27, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  20. lewlew

    lewlew New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist
    AMEN to Dave Gilbert! Trust in the Lord, lean not on your own understanding!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...