1. Jesus was about living in and engaging his surrounding culture.
2. The church emerged from Jesus engaging culture and humanity.
3. A healthy church can transition in and out of culture with ease.
4. Churches tend to either be inward focused (inreach) or outward focused (outreach). The church needs to connect with cutlture through a lens that is healthy.
5. The church is something that God never intended it to be.
6. Is the church the end goal or the vehicle to the end goal?
7. Should the church be more integrated into culture, and if so, how?
Your thoughts on these statements.
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by SaggyWoman, Jan 5, 2009.
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That said here are my thoughts:
1. I disagree, Jesus was about glorifying the Father, that was His chief business. His Gospel transcends culture.
2. The church emerged because God raised it up and ordained it.
3. I think that a local church naturally will reflect the culture in which it is located. This is healthy as long as culture does not violate any clear biblical standards and norms. In fact a culturally insensitive church (such as a church plant in a non-american culture) that seeks to be "american" will ultimately hinder the cause of the gospel.
4. Those are not the only two options. A church that is "up-ward" focused (i.e. with the the glory of God being is driving motivation for all it does) will focus on the edification of the saints and the propagation of the gospel at the same time. To a degree a church aught to connect to culture as long as that does not overstep clear biblical mandates. I think it is better to say that a church should be sensitive to culture.
5. I have no idea what the author of the statement thinks the church should be so I can not comment.
6. The church is the vehicle to the end goal of God receiving all the glory due Him.
7. I think I answered that in statements 4 and 3. -
Read Richard Niebuhr's classic Christ and Culture. Dated though it is, there is no more seminal analysis of what churches have done over the years to engage or disengage; and his discussion of the transformation of culture is the starting point for any serious theology on this matter.
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What he said. :) I totally agree with you. I hate this whole "culture" excuse that people make about the church. It's about God - not the culture. Yes, we need to understand those we are ministering to but without a God focus, we lose our way. -
At the same time however, I definitely "sense" a great deal that is very "wrong" that is underlying this, even though it is actually unspoken, here. All of the other posters, so far, have already made some good points, I would add. I would want a good deal more information from the one who has made these statements, personally.
Ed -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I agree with what 4His Glory said
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Yes, Jesus did live in and engage his culture. He did this primarily through teaching and preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God. This was His secondary objective in coming to earth with the primary one being His sacrifice on the cross and resurrection to provide salvation for all mankind.
2. The church emerged from Jesus engaging culture and humanity.
The Great Commission summarized Jesus' marching orders for the Church.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
The early church grew rapidly through Christians' faith, commitment, and sharing the Word. They didn't do this by "circling the wagons" but through engagement with non-believers.
3. A healthy church can transition in and out of culture with ease.
We are told as Christians to be in the world but not of the world. Christians and the church should not mirror any culture they find themselves in but need to work in that culture to be obedient to the Great Commission.
4. Churches tend to either be inward focused (inreach) or outward focused (outreach). The church needs to connect with cutlture through a lens that is healthy.
The church needs to support and empower its members to go out into the world and spread the good News.
5. The church is something that God never intended it to be.
The church should speak out on moral issues but should never associate itself with political candidates or a specific political party. Patriotism and Christianity should not be mixed. Both are of course worthy objectives but they should not be considered to be dependent upon one another.
Most of today's church members assume that "soul winning" is the responsibility of the church staff or the Deacons. Every church member needs to understand that they are responsible for outreach as well.
6. Is the church the end goal or the vehicle to the end goal?
Individually worshiping God and establishing a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is the goal. The church is here to support individuals. The pastor won't be standing beside us when we face the final judgment. We have to face Jesus Christ alone.
7. Should the church be more integrated into culture, and if so, how?
The church should be more engaged with culture as was Jesus. He associated with the worst members of society (prostitutes, tax, collectors, etc.). The church should NEVER be integrated into culture. We must always be separate but engaged.
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No. 2 is so wrong. The church was established by Jesus and had nothing to do with the culture it was in. It's for people "set apart" or "called out" from the culture. That's what the word "church" means.
What is meant by "transitioning" in and out of culture? No, the church should not look like the culture. We should engage the culture, but that's different than looking like it.
No. 1 is wrong. Jesus was about coming to announce the Kingdom of God is at hand, and to die for sins, so that man could have forgiveness and be redeemed.
No. 4 is a false dichotomy. The Emergents are experts with this and use them all the time. For this and other reasons, I think this is coming from an Emergent person, church, or Emergent-friendly person. If it's not, I bet the person who said this is being influenced by them.
No. 7: The church should not be integrated into the culture, but should understand the culture and be bringing the gospel to the culture. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I would add:
No. 3 is a false premise. A healthy church doesn't react to the culture at all. It obeys its Lord.
No. 5 is wrong. The 'true' church (ekklesia) is exactly what God intended it to be. The 'professed' church (the visible church the world sees) consists of true church members (wheat) and professed believers who are not really Believers (tares). It is what God knew it would become, and in the sense of His sovereignty, what He intended it to be.
No 6. is another false premise. God doesn't set goals that may or may not be met.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The word culture, which is often used when the appropriate word is sub-culture, is many times ans excuse to be comfortable, feed the flesh, conform to this world. And God becomes a means to the end which is the happiness of man.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter