In search of J. J. Ray

[Jerome]

the opposite extreme from KJVO

KJVO and anti-KJVO

As we see over and over, both extremes have serious credibility issues.

One poster here's kept repeating his line that there was no actual J. J. Ray, and other such nonsense, long after evidence was presented in the 2004 thread that suggested otherwise.

A sample over the years (and this is just from this board):

J.J.Ray?...That name's almost certainly a pseudonym

Whoever Ray is (or was) he/she...

As for J. J. Ray....Why would a CHRISTIAN author use a pseudonym?

"j j ray"....Why use a pseudonym? What was he afraid if?

"J, J, Ray" (whoever that is/was)

try Googling "J. J. Ray"....The only person we found...was a used-car salesman

 

[robycop3]

I believed that maybe Ray was laying low because his book was a heavy plagiarization of Dr. Ben Wilkinson's Our Authorized Bible Vindicated. Ray didn't acknowledge Dr. W in the slightest.

Then Dr. D. O. Fuller copied from both Dr. W & Ray in his 1970 book, Which Bible? But he at least acknowledged them.

Those 3 boox are the basis of the current KJVO myth.

THANX,Rlvaughn, for the intel on Ray!

 

[rlvaughn]

"Eugene Watrous has transferred his interest In the Junction City Times to Jasper J. Ray, and retired from the business. The firm name is now Nelson & Ray. Mr. Ray is a son-in-law of Mr. Nelson."

Good find. I had Mrs. Ray's maiden name, but had not connected her to the Thomas Nelson her husband was in business with.

This may explain Ray's initial move to Junction City. Looks like his work with the Sunday School Union may not have started till the mid 1920s.

 

[rlvaughn]

It even elicited a response in A Malicious Attack on the Revised Standard Version of the Bible: A Review of the Booklet "The New Blasphemous Bible" by Dr. Gerald B. Winrod and "The Eye Opener" by J. J. Ray, by someone named Carl J. E. Nelson of Colorado Springs, CO that same year.

Gerald B. Winrod

Carl J. E. Nelson

 

[Logos1560]

Gerald B. Winrod

I searched for his book in response to J. J. Ray at books.google and came across books with information about this man.

Gerald Burton Winrod is said to have been fundamentalist, anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, anti-evolution. He ran for U. S. Senate in Kansas in the 1930's. He was accused of supporting Nazism, and was said to have been arrested during World War II.

He founded a group called "Defenders of the Christian faith" and had a publication entitled "Defender." He is said to have been friends with William Bell Riley, and at one time an extension secretary of Riley's World's Christian Fundamental Association. One book suggested that he joined Pentecostals in evangelistic campaigns and political causes while another book suggested that he was an independent Baptist.

 

[Jerome]

A Malicious Attack on the Revised Standard Version of the Bible: A Review of..."The Eye Opener" by J. J. Ray...by someone named Carl J. E. Nelson of Colorado Springs, CO

Carl J. E. Nelson

Bro. RLVaughn, I have info on C. J. E. Nelson, with sources:

Vestkusten (San Francisco, Calif.) 8 Feb. 1923, p. 3:



Literature & Odd Fiction - William Matthews, Bookseller

"122.... Nelson (Carl J.E.) A True Brother. Colorado Springs: Rays of Light, (1941)....A peculiar novel, much to do with collecting moths and butterflies in the Pike's Peak region."

 

[Jerome]

The Evangelical Beacon (Evangelical Free Church of America) 21 June 1949, p. 8:



Calvin Hanson's History of the Evangelical Free Church in America (1990) p. 196:

a Calvinistic book...[was] advertised in a few issues [of the Beacon]...one of the (Arminian) pastors...(Rev. Carl J. E. Nelson) then countered by publishing his own little book, Eternal Security an Unbiblical Doctrine and when that was out of print got out a little magazine, Rays of Light, which to many seemed to have only one purpose: to lambast the doctrine of eternal security

 

[Jerome]

Literature & Odd Fiction - William Matthews, Bookseller

"122.... Nelson (Carl J.E.) A True Brother. Colorado Springs: Rays of Light, (1941)....A peculiar novel, much to do with collecting moths and butterflies in the Pike's Peak region."

 

[Jerome]

KJVO and anti-KJVO...the opposite extreme from KJVO

As we see over and over, both extremes have serious credibility issues.

One poster here's kept repeating his line that there was no actual J. J. Ray, and other such nonsense...

I believed that maybe Ray...

Thank you for identifying yourself so promptly, Robycop3. Making J.J. Ray a he/she ranks right up there with the 'tax stamp' howler.

 

[rlvaughn]

Not specific to Ray, but since he was dependent on Wilkinson...

I may just be coming late to the party, but I didn't realize that Benjamin Wilkinson wrote a second book, a response to the objections to Our Authorized Version Vindicated, called Answers to Objections.

What was the impetus Wilkinson's book? Was something going on among the Adventists at this time? Seems Our Authorized Version Vindicated was ostensibly a reply against the Revised Version and the American Revision of 1901. But why in 1930, nearly 30 years later? The timing of the works of Hills, Ray, et al. is easier for me to understand. The Revised Standard had recently been produced and there was much objection to it.

 

[rsr]

Wilkinson was among the conservatives in the Adventists' conservative-modernist controversy that affected most Protestant denominations of the time. Wilkinson was conservative, claiming that Ellen White's writings were inspired (even though she used different Bible versions). For Wilkinson, upholding White and the KJV were two sides of the same coin.

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1427&context=jats

To those who hold up Wilkinson as an expert, please read his Truth Triumphant, which denies orthodox Trinitarianism and makes St. Patrick into an Adventist who rejects Trinitarianism and holds to a Saturday sabbath, among other things. (Sort of like some folks want to make him into a Baptist.)

https://www.sabbathtruth.com/portals/20/documents/Truth_Triumphant.pdf

 

[rlvaughn]

Wilkinson was among the conservatives in the Adventists' conservative-modernist controversy that affected most Protestant denominations of the time. Wilkinson was conservative, claiming that Ellen White's writings were inspired (even though she used different Bible versions). For Wilkinson, upholding White and the KJV were two sides of the same coin.

I guess I'd never thought of the SDA's having a fundamentalist/modernist controversy going on at the same time as many other denominations. I found an online Our Authorized Bible Vindicated, and I see that he launches right into that in chapter 1 -- linking the Revised Version to modernism, then following with an example of articles in 1928 and 1929 about who killed Goliath. So I see what you are saying about the timing.

To those who hold up Wilkinson as an expert, please read his Truth Triumphant, which denies orthodox Trinitarianism and makes St. Patrick into an Adventist who rejects Trinitarianism and holds to a Saturday sabbath, among other things. (Sort of like some folks want to make him into a Baptist.)

I'd say that shows bias and willingness to give in to that bias. I have no thought on his expertise or the lack thereof, but I have noticed some random comments in places that seemed to imply that Wilkinson might not have had a doctorate, or received it from a less than reputable source. According an excerpt posted online, purported to be from the Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopedia, Wilkinson studied for the ministry at Battle Creek College, received a B.A. degree from the University of Michigan in 1897 (which I was able to confirm on Ancestry.com), and received a doctoral degree from George Washington University in 1908. (A Master's in not mentioned.) Being well-educated and not being an expert in certain fields are not mutually exclusive (I know that's not what you mean, but I am thinking along this line because I have just been researching a bit about the person Wilkinson.)

 

[rsr]

I make no judgments about whether a person with a degree is qualified to comment on a subject. I have worked in my profession for 40 years and am not qualified to be a college professor because I lack an advanced degree. I have been edified by the New Testament criticism of W. Wilker, who is has no professional qualifications but has laboriously collated texts in a way that is rare among even academics. On the other hand, people like Wilkinson (who was president of a college but had no discernible expertise in the original languages) are taken as experts on textual matters.

 

[TCassidy]

I agree rsr. One of the very best experts in textual collation is the late William Pierpont, who did not have a degree in anything related to bible textual issues. He ended up being co-editor of The Greek New Testament: Byzantine Textform, with Dr. Maurice Robinson, who has a doctorate in the field.

He also was an Engineer in the Structures department at Beech Aircraft, where his technical expertise allowed him to create and head a Structural Dynamics Group. He eventually became recognized--even within NASA--as an expert in aircraft structural dynamics, particularly vibration and wing flutter. He often served as an expert witness regarding the causes of small plane crashes. He retired as Chief Scientist at Beech in 1982 after approximately 41 years of service. And all that with virtually no post secondary education.

 

[Jerome]

What was the impetus Wilkinson's book? Was something going on among the Adventists at this time? Seems Our Authorized Version Vindicated was ostensibly a reply against the Revised Version and the American Revision of 1901. But why in 1930

The second work you linked to explains on p. 3:

"the book entitled, "The World's Best Book" (W.P. Pearce), published....by one of our large publishing houses, which in its ultimate, is a plea for the American Revised Version....That book went far astray in expressing denominational views."

 

[rlvaughn]

I have been edified by the New Testament criticism of W. Wilker, who is has no professional qualifications but has laboriously collated texts in a way that is rare among even academics. On the other hand, people like Wilkinson (who was president of a college but had no discernible expertise in the original languages) are taken as experts on textual matters.

Good point to show that we need to be discerning -- and make enough effort to learn as much about any given topic that we can -- since the letters before and behind a person's name (or lack thereof) may or may not mean anything about them knowing the topic they are discussing.

The second work you linked to explains on p. 3:

"the book entitled, "The World's Best Book" (W.P. Pearce), published....by one of our large publishing houses, which in its ultimate, is a plea for the American Revised Version....That book went far astray in expressing denominational views."

Thanks. I had noticed a mention of that book title somewhere, but hadn't followed up on it.

While Wilkinson apparently did make an original contribution to the Bible versions debate, these kinds of things seldom originate out of thin air.

 

[rlvaughn]

The second work you linked to explains on p. 3:

"the book entitled, "The World's Best Book" (W.P. Pearce), published....by one of our large publishing houses, which in its ultimate, is a plea for the American Revised Version....That book went far astray in expressing denominational views."

Strangely enough, I found this book advertised twice in May 1930 in Word and Way, a Kansas City, Missouri Baptist publication. Wondering why they would advertise a book by a Seventh-Day Adventist -- and say "Every Bible student should have it in his library," I searched and discovered W(illiam) P. Pearce was actually a Baptist preacher. I then wondered why a Seventh-Day Adventist Publishing House (Pacific Press Publishing Association, Mountain View, CA) would publish a book by a Baptist preacher. Perhaps he had a brief stint as an Adventist. Haven't found out yet.

 

[rlvaughn]

Ad for Pearce's book:

 

[rlvaughn]

Author is pastor of First Baptist Church, Albion, Michigan:

 

[Jerome]

Battle Creek Enquirer Sat Jan 25 1930


Battle Creek Sanitarium - Wikipedia

The Battle Creek Sanitarium in Battle Creek, Michigan, United States, was a health resort based on the health principles advocated by the Seventh-day Adventist Church