If any man be ignorant LET HIM BE ignorant! I have thoroughly proven that Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Rahab, the Ninevites WERE NOT THE NATION OF ISRAEL and yet they were THE PEOPLE OF GOD and you just keep repeating your absolute false nonsense.
Baptism in the Spirit
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 5, 2012.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Spiritual union with Christ is the relationship that Abraham had with Christ as much as you do:
Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Abraham was chosen "IN" Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4) unto "salvation THROUGH santification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thes. 2:13) and all the elect know their election when the gospel comes in power and IN THE HOLY SPIRIT (1 Thes. 1:4-5). There are no third class of human beings between those who are "in the flesh" and those who are "in the Spirit" (Rom. 8:8-9) or between those born of the flesh and those born of the Spirit (Jn. 3:3-6).
There is no such thing as salvation for anyone at anytime anywhere on planet earth outside of SPIRITUAL UNION with Christ as all who are not in spiritual union with Christ are SPIRITUALLY DEAD. -
You also show that you can get away with speaking rudely to others.
You have NOT proven anything. Your beliefs are false.
From Adam came Abel, Seth, and Noah. From Noah came Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Rahab married Salmon who came from Abraham, and she was the mother of Boaz.
They were all related to each other. God had oaths with the forefathers. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
How many times have you limited the "people of God" to merely the nation of Israel before Pentecost! That is so silly and unbiblical it hardly requires rebuttal. However, I have patently over and over again cited several instances from the Old Testament of God's people who were NOT OF ISRAEL and no more related to Israel than YOU are by virtue of being a son of Adam.
However, you just keep coming back with the same absurd disproven statements.
AGAIN, Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, the Ninevites were all God's peopl as any cursory reading of the Old Testament scriptues show and Hebrews 11 spell out in no uncertain terms and yet you deny it.
Furthermore, you cannot be one of God's people (EXCEPT BY PROFESSION) without the new birth as Jesus plainly tells A JEW who you would claim to be of "the people of God" and yet he was not SPIRITUALLY of "the people of God" only ETHNICALLY and by PROFESSION! What is hard to get about this????? I will tell you. You are embracing false doctrine and so you can't see the barn when it is standing on your nose! -
According to you, Jesus did not have to die; the people just had to look ahead to what was going to happen!
God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect, Hebrews 10:40.
Did you read that? They were not made perfect until the gospel was preached.
The people in the Old Testament had to have animal sacrifices! -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
No, I said Paul said that in Romans 3:25:
Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
You are lying! Quote where I ever said such a thing! Quote me or admit you are lying! Indeed, this lie by you contradicts your very next conclusion of what you claim I believe. I can say and I believe they looked ahead to something because that something had to happen. You are so irrational that your own objections are absurd and silly.
"For unto us the gospel was preached AS WELL AS UNTO THEM...."
He is not talking about salvation, remission of sins but of the promise that Abraham was looking for - a city whose builder was God AND glorification of the body - that is the promise they looked for. REad what he says:
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
He defines "the promise" they did not recieve and that is to be "MADE PERFECT." That is precisely what they will received yet future "WITH US."
Faith obtained salvation for them as Peter says (Acts 10:43) and Paul says (Acts 26:22-23; Heb. 4:2; Gal. 3:6-8; Romans 4) but they did not receive the promise of the New Jerusalem and glorification of their bodies by resurrection "WITHOUT US."
We have something BETTER in that we do not look forward to the coming of Christ to die but look back to the FINISHED work of Christ and forward to the New City and glorification. You simply do not understand what you are reading.
He is talking about something that they could not have WITHOUT US sharing it - the glorification of the body.
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The Samaritan woman said to him, “How can you, a Jew, ask me, a Samaritan woman, for a drink?” (For Jews use nothing in common with Samaritans.) John 4:9
Note, she was a Samaritan woman.
Next, read how she asks Jesus if he is greater than “our” father Jacob.
Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this cistern and drank from it himself with his children and his flocks?” John 4:12
The woman also says,
“Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain; but you people say that the place to worship is in Jerusalem.”
Did you read that?
Now, read what Jesus says to her.
Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You people worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand, because salvation is from the Jews. John 4:21 and 22.
Did you read how Jesus said to the woman who called Jacob “father,” and spoke of worshiping God?
What does Jesus say to her? Jesus says YOU PEOPLE WORSHIP WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND; WE WORSHIP WHAT WE UNDERSTAND. BECAUSE SALVATION IS FROM THE JEWS.
The Jews did not even use anything in common with the Samaritans. Jesus called people from Canaanite the children’s dogs.
Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.
Jesus said salvation was from the Jews.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
He that is ignorant let him be ignorant!
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I have demonstrated my position thoroughly. Thus far, there has not been any serious objections to the position I have taken. The only objections that have been made were irrational of which I have easily proven to be unbiblical.
The bottom line is there is no such thing as THREE different classes of humanity described in the Scriptures. Either you are "in the flesh" or "in the Spirit" or born "of the flesh" or "born of the Spirit" both before and after Pentecost.
There is no such thing as TRUE SPIRITUAL people of God who are not in SPIRITUAL UNION with God as the only other alternative is SPIRITUAL SEPARATION and thus SPIRITUALLY DEAD.
The baptism of the Spirit cannot possibly pertain to SPIRITUAL UNION or to indivdiual salvation of anyone at anytime in Scriptures. It is the ONE TIME accreditation of the public house of God both in the Old and New Testaments. -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Your accusation that I denied Christ would have to come is a lie and you cannot possibly quote me ever saying such nonsense and yet you will not admit that you have lied about my position. You are irrational and there can be reasonable discussion with an irrational person. -
If you find anyone, whom sides with you, then you have found someone lost and trapped just like you. -
The Old Testament people had to make animal sacrifices, without blood there was no forgiveness of sins.
On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived, Luke 2:21.
Biblicist, were the Gentiles circumcised? No.
Luke 2:22 When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
Luke 2:23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord"),
Luke 2:24 and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: "a pair of doves or two young pigeons."
Even Mary had to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord.
Did the Gentiles do that? No.
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness, Hebrews 9:22.
Did the Gentiles offer sin offerings for their sins? No.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Did the Gentile make atonement for their selves? No. So why in the world do you keep saying the Gentiles were God’s people in the Old Testament! -
Biblicist continually says that even Gentiles were God’s people in the Old Testament times, even though the Gentiles were not circumcised and did not give sin offerings and do other works of the law.
Biblicist says the Old Testament people were forgiven for sins by looking forward to Jesus’s shed blood on the cross; however, the Old Testament Jews had to shed blood of animals for atonement of sins.
Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, those were the Jews with faith, and the other Jews were cut off. After Jesus was lifted up, then all men could come to him.
Biblicist calls it debating when he calls me names and falsely accuses me. He has no understanding and that is where most his false accusations and twisting what I say comes from.
I gave scripture that says the blood of Christ brought the Gentiles near. That Jesus makes the Jews and the Gentiles one by his flesh. That through the gospel that the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel. See Ephesians 2:13, 15; and Ephesians 3:6. Those things happened WHEN Jesus was crucified.
Again, Biblicist does not acknowledge the Truth, but denies and continues to teach falseness. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
However, it does not matter how many times I explain it to you, you will pervert it because it is in your best interest to pervert my position.
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Here it is again, you DO say “scores of individual Gentiles living previous to the cross…” How were they saved before the cross! They did not give sin offerings! Jesus’ blood was not yet shed on the cross!
I gave you scripture that says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. SO HOW WERE ALL THOSE GENTILES OF THE OLD TESTAMENT TIMES FORGIVEN? DID THEY SHED BLOOD LIKE THE JEWS? No! You reject the Truth.
Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. -
Ruth the Moabitess,
And Jonah, sent to the Ninevites; the entire nation repented in sackcloth and ashes.
Two individuals and an entire Gentile nation were saved after Jacob had lived and died. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You are adding to you list of lies. First you lied by falsely accusing me that I did not believe Jesus had to come and die, and you made this false charge because of all things, I said they were saved by faith looking to the cross. Now you lie again!
Now quote where I said that gentiles were saved as NATIONS before the cross or repent of your false accusation!
Acts 10:43 says they had their sins remitted by faith just as we do. READ IT!
God does not have TWO Saviors, TWO gospels' TWO ways of salvation nor is there TWO different kinds of human beings. Go figure!
Go back to sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.
Tell me, does Hebrews 4:2 says "unto us" and "as well as unto them" that "THE GOSPEL WAS PREACHED"?????? Or does it say one kind of gospel was preached to them and another kind of gospel to us???
Go back to sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.
It is your mind that is twisted by false doctrine that you cannot even read English right in front of your nose. It is not a matter of interpetation but explicit clear unambigous statements that Acts 10:43 and Hebrews 4:2 make. Your mind is so irrational you cannot even read and makes sense of the words you read.
Go back to Sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.
You wouldn't even believe Jesus if he told you that would you??? Read his lips because Jesus is calling you by name in these verses:
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?...........44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
What you need is for Christ to apply verse 45 to you!
No more discussion will be had with the likes of you! If you wish to remain ignorant then so be it. -
What do you think you have proven by bringing up Ruth?
God had mercy on the Ninevites. What do you think you have proven by bringing them up? -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Reader, Moriah is claiming that Jesus Christ needed to be saved!!!! He is using the circumcision of Jesus Christ and blood sacrifices to prove Old Testament saints were saved by blood sacrifices when Hebrews 10:4 denies that such sacrifices EVER took away sins but they were only TYPES and FIGURES and NEVER remitted sins. However, that does not matter to Moriah. No, he will make it fit his false gospel and false doctrines.
It does not make any difference to Moriah that Paul repeatedly states that the jews were NEVER justified by keeping the law (Rom. 3:19-20) and that the Law was NEVER given as a way to obtain eternal life (Gal. 3:21). No, Moriah will make it fit his false gospel and false doctrine.
It does not matter to Moriah that Christ claimed there was only "ONE" way before Pentecost to be saved (Mt. 7:13-14) and that "NO MAN" could come to the Father BEFORE Pentecost except by faith in him (Jn. 14:6; Jn. 3:16) as well as after Pentecost (Acts 4:12).
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