Baptist Board?

[Van]

Van -- that is his interpretation - so lets be careful of calling someones' doctrine a falsehood.
Remember, Jesus Fan would consider your view a falsehood.

This is not a matter of opinion, Sir. Romans 5:19 says people are "made righteous." Anyone who says we are not "made righteous" is a false teacher. Do you disagree?

Please cite a verse or passage that says or implies we are "imputed with Christ's righteousness."

Christ commands that we be "intolerant" of false teachers. (2 Peter 2:1-3, Revelation 2:20) Is your view we can no longer identify those who lead or have been led astray?

 

[Van]

Does God impute (credit) righteousness to individuals? Yes. Does this make them righteous? Nope.

Here is the actual doctrine of the Bible:

God credits the faith of some (for example Abraham) as righteousness. So the person is credited with having a righteous faith.
But only after being placed spiritually into Christ's spiritual body, are those individuals made righteous by the washing of regeneration, being made alive together with Christ.

 

[Van]

Romans 4:5
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace

Phl 3:9
and be found in Him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ's faithfulness - a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ's faithfulness.

 

[Revmitchell]

First, there is no conflict between being "made righteous" and imputed righteousness of Christ. One has to play mental gymnastics in order to make that case.

Second, the use of the word "imparted" is much like the word Trinity. Neither are directly found in scripture but are the means to communicate what is in scripture. It cannot be said that because there can be found no direct statements or use of words that means it is false. Usually such arguments are made when the position held is being demanded to be affirmed by everyone else but stands of shaky ground. Weak positions require bluster and heated words to support them.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For our sake he made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

There is a clear statement of where our righteousness comes from. It come from Christ. We have Christ's righteousness because he took on our sin.

Philippians 3:9
9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

1. we do not have a righteousness of our own. 2. righteousness from God is the righteousness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Because we are in Christ, He became wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption for us.


Now this is the clear teaching of scripture. We are made righteous because we have Christ's righteousness. This semantical splitting of hairs does not illuminate scripture it weakens the view of God.

 

[Van]

First, there is no conflict between being "made righteous" and imputed righteousness of Christ. One has to play mental gymnastics in order to make that case.

Second, the use of the word "imparted" is much like the word Trinity. Neither are directly found in scripture but are the means to communicate what is in scripture. It cannot be said that because there can be found no direct statements or use of words that means it is false. Usually such arguments are made when the position held is being demanded to be affirmed by everyone else but stands of shaky ground. Weak positions require bluster and heated words to support them.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For our sake he made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

There is a clear statement of where our righteousness comes from. It come from Christ. We have Christ's righteousness because he took on our sin.

Philippians 3:9
9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

1. we do not have a righteousness of our own. 2. righteousness from God is the righteousness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Because we are in Christ, He became wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption for us.


Now this is the clear teaching of scripture. We are made righteous because we have Christ's righteousness. This semantical splitting of hairs does not illuminate scripture it weakens the view of God.

Yet another "claim what is not said as being said" post.
1) Does our righteousness come from Christ? Yes, not at issue.
2) Do "we have His righteousness because He took on our sin?" Nope, but we were made righteous because He took what God had against us and put it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. (Colossians 2:14)
3) The difference between made righteous, and declared righteous is the method. Scripture refers to the washing of regeneration, and the circumcision of Christ, and also refers to the blood (sacrifice of His life).

Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.






​

 

[Van]

When we are made righteous are we credited (imputed) with Christ's righteousness? Nope
Romans 3:21-22
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction,

2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be our sin offering in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

And how do we "become" the righteousness of God?" (1) When we have been placed into Christ's spiritual body, thus "in Him." (2) When we were made alive by the washing of regeneration. (3) By the circumcision of Christ.

Colossians 2:11
and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ,
​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, do hold to the 5 doctrines of grace!

Calvins 5 points are all about Grace?

I am not sure I agree here

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus died in our place, bearing our sins on the Cross, and receiving our due wrath, judgement, and separation , in order that God the father now can justify any and all whop place trust and faith in Jesus and his finished work!

I would call this Christine justification not Pauline. Jesus taught the same thing. In fact his Father is the author of this gospel

You do realise this goes against calvinist teaching though. This teaches free will.. Calvin rejects free will

 

[JesusFan]

Calvins 5 points are all about Grace?

I am not sure I agree here

There are not his, but are those held by Calvinists!

 

[JesusFan]

I would call this Christine justification not Pauline. Jesus taught the same thing. In fact his Father is the author of this gospel

You do realise this goes against calvinist teaching though. This teaches free will.. Calvin rejects free will

We hold to free will, its just that our free will is limited by our sin natures!

 

[Reynolds]

Does God impute (credit) righteousness to individuals? Yes. Does this make them righteous? Nope.

Here is the actual doctrine of the Bible:

God credits the faith of some (for example Abraham) as righteousness. So the person is credited with having a righteous faith.
But only after being placed spiritually into Christ's spiritual body, are those individuals made righteous by the washing of regeneration, being made alive together with Christ.

If you are not righteous, you will not enter Heaven.

 

[AustinC]

I would call this Christine justification not Pauline. Jesus taught the same thing. In fact his Father is the author of this gospel

You do realise this goes against calvinist teaching though. This teaches free will.. Calvin rejects free will

Christine and Pauline justification are one and the same.

Galatians 1:6-7

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We hold to free will, its just that our free will is limited by our sin natures!

Even people with sin natures can chose to freely admit they are guilty and recieve the gift of life.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christine and Pauline justification are one and the same.

Galatians 1:6-7

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Yes. As well as the gospel of every apostle prophet disciple in the word

 

[Van]

If you are not righteous, you will not enter Heaven.

Yet another non-responsive post, quoting the obvious as if germane. God credits the faith of some (for example Abraham) as righteousness. So the person is credited with having a righteous faith. But only after being placed spiritually into Christ's spiritual body, are those individuals made righteous by the washing of regeneration, being made alive together with Christ.

 

[Van]

A little thought problem for those seeking to discern truth. Say a person is "dead in their trespasses." Thus the consequence of their being made sinners and of their sins is that they are separated from God. God is holy and they are not and thus God requires that they remain separated. So if a person is "made alive, together with Christ" they are no longer "dead in their trespasses" so somehow they have been justified in the process of being made alive, which of course refers to the washing of regeneration.

Now think deeply. Were they "declared alive?" How about "imputed with life?" What about accepting that they were "made alive?"

Only those blinded by presuppositions will not be able to grasp this obvious truth. Made righteous means made righteous. Made alive means made alive. Washing of regeneration is a divine action, not a declaration.

 

[Reynolds]

Yet another non-responsive post, quoting the obvious as if germane. God credits the faith of some (for example Abraham) as righteousness. So the person is credited with having a righteous faith. But only after being placed spiritually into Christ's spiritual body, are those individuals made righteous by the washing of regeneration, being made alive together with Christ.

Why did that need explanation? It didn't.

 

[Van]

Why did that need explanation? It didn't.

One day this truth will dawn, the fault finders will find no rewards. Did we need to be told that only the righteous will enter heaven or is that well known?

A little thought problem for those seeking to discern truth. Say a person is "dead in their trespasses." Thus the consequence of their being made sinners and of their sins is that they are separated from God. God is holy and they are not and thus God requires that they remain separated. So if a person is "made alive, together with Christ" they are no longer "dead in their trespasses" so somehow they have been justified in the process of being made alive, which of course refers to the washing of regeneration.

Now think deeply. Were they "declared alive?" How about "imputed with life?" What about accepting that they were "made alive?"

Only those blinded by presuppositions will not be able to grasp this obvious truth. Made righteous means made righteous. Made alive means made alive. Washing of regeneration is a divine action, not a declaration.

 

[AustinC]

Even people with sin natures can chose to freely admit they are guilty and recieve the gift of life.

What happened in the Garden? Did Adam and Eve freely admit their guilt? Or, did God have to call them out of hiding first?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What happened in the Garden? Did Adam and Eve freely admit their guilt? Or, did God have to call them out of hiding first?

Did they continue to run. Did Jesus force them to put on the clothes he gave them when he killed the animal?

You will only see what you want to see