Catholics not accepted?

Wow, you really need to re-read you Bible. Jesus was the only begotten of the Fatherl Mary gave birth to Jesus after His pre-incarnate form (Melchizedek) she was the ARK OF THE COVENANT! Jesus always existed with the Father.

No Mary was the Mother of God, can't degrade Jesus to anything else but true God of True God. You protestants are just stuck with that theological Reality, like it or not.

BTW, quite a few former Baptist (some pastors) converted to Catholic faith afte coming to realize this theological truth was not negotiable. I suggest you study it with those Baptist blinders off!

 

From the same source comes this stat:

 

Mary was made of wood?
Who needs to take their blinders off?

 

From the American Tract Society Dictionary


You will notice it has no reference, or even the slightest allusion to Mary.

 

I've studied the history of the "Mother of God" statement and it came about to affirm the deity of Christ; it was not to say Mary is the mother of God the Father, but rather that she was the mother of Jesus, the incarnated God the Son. This statement was a result of attacks on the deity of Christ.

 

Well, I would disagree with that, of course.

Are they not mainly using titles like co-redemptrix and mediator as well, to bring her to a higher place?

 

I rarely criticize Catholics' beliefs here.

We have too many people who hate Catholics here. They use criticism of Catholicism as an opportunity to air their grudges against Catholics.

I think this warrants an exception to my normal policy. It is troubling how much more is being said in exaltation of Mary than of Jesus Christ.

Lori: you need to tone down your praises of Mary on this board if you want to be taken seriously. Some opinions are best left unexpressed in some cases.

 

lets compare the rc catechism to the Word of God:

1. CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
1. "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," (Rom. 3:20).
2. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 3:24).
3. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
4. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
5. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
6. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God," (Eph. 2:8).
7. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost," (Titus 3:5).

2. CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"
1. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name," (John 1:12).
2. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
3. 'For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
4. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the peoples: for this he did once, when he offered up himself," (Heb. 7:25-27).
5. "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day," (2 Tim. 1:12).

3. Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."
1. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
2. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).

as you can see by the papacys (rcc) own doc's... they are antichrist.

 

Written regarding Johnv:

These are the entirety of their posts.

JohnDeereFan: yours was the worst.

There was no basis for this. Here is what I see in Scripture. Jesus said the following:

• John 14:15 "If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments."

• Mark 7:20b "What comes out of a person is what defiles him.
  Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,
  Mar 7:22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
  Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

• Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

• Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
  Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

• By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another

The brother whom you just smeared is someone you do not know. You have no idea what he does in regular life. The main thing I have seen him do here is speak up for the slandered. God, which would mean Jesus, said before Incarnation at Isaiah 61:8 "For I the LORD love justice" and at Micah 6:8 "It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what the LORD doth require of thee: only to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God" (JPS 1917). Johnv has spoken up for those being smeared in his time here. Despite the errors of Roman Catholicism, he has followed the "Blessed are the merciful" that Jesus said here on this earth. He has followed a desire to see Catholics being treated fairly despite their errors, loving justice and mercy just as the Lord does.

You, in contrast to what Jesus wants from us, are most noticed for what and whom you HATE. If you love anyone, I sure cannot tell. The opposite goes with your every post right now, as your current signature airs your ill feelings for three people: Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Joel Osteen. I know you hate Catholics, as you persist in smearing them for beliefs and practices they do not have. You have shown no compassion and no mercy: it may be false witness, but if you think you can pull it off, you will post it. It is apparent that you have no use for Johnv, as clear from the above gratuitous shot. I read about what Jesus said He wanted in His followers, and I see anything but that in you.

I dare say that you just reviled the better Christian -- if being how Jesus wants us to be is the main criteria for that, and assuming that we are going with what the Bible actually says about that.

 

if somebody here "hates" a catholic... they need to repent...
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies...

but that is not the case, typically. Christians who are in the Truth of Christ and the Truth of the Word... hate error and false religion...
Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil;

NOT the people who are deceived in that false religion... i dont hate catholics... i hate false religion and i am commanded by God to expose it...

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

would you not call killing 50 million innocent people (by the papacy)... "fruitless deeds of darkness"?

the papacy is to be exposed. the catholics are to be loved and told the truth. and you show them love by telling them the truth... not be keeping quiet.

 

But NOT THE ADHERENTS THEREOF.

THAT is what too few here want to accept.

Sure, plenty of people here understand and accept that. However, we still have
a) people who refuse to accept that, and
b) people who defend those who refuse to accept that.

It reminds me of a Sunday evening service I once saw. A foul individual was a guest pulpit person defiling the preaching of the Word and the pulpit of two good ministers. During his time in that pulpit, behind a Book he hardly referenced, he took occasion to mock the size of an overweight man -- who was terribly embarrassed. His brutish behavior was excused because he was `preaching the truth' about a variety of religious topics. I disagree that it made his pauses to mock the man's size okay.

Here right now, a person was called a "sorry example" of a Christian, and I spoke up for him -- and a defense for that unmerited smear will probably come similar to "the papacy is to be exposed." That is totally irrelevant to what was done, and it does not make what was done `okay.'

Right.

But there are people here who do, and people here who defend those who do.

Fine, expose the papacy. I for one would love to see Catholicism criticized on just grounds around here, but that is not realistic at this time. Since no talk is better than slander and false witness and hateful speech, and edifying criticism would be overshadowed by them, I generally withhold criticism. If those who insist upon slandering Catholics were gone or restrained, things would be different, and Catholicism could be criticized on just grounds without it leading to anything sinful -- but that is not the case.

Somehow, some people seem to think that `We must expose the Vatican, and if we engage in activity that is sinful, it is okay.' Exposing error is not a magic charm for making sin okay. Not one person who believes in a `rightness exemption' or an `exposing error exemption' has ever quoted a Scripture that shows such a thing exists.

I did not once defend the papacy in my post.

The problem in the post you are quoting is illustrated by a hateful comment made against someone who did not deserve it. The person is not Catholic, and further shows more resemblance to what Jesus Christ prescribed for his followers. The fact that the perpetrator likes to try to get people to think bad things about Catholics does not make that okay, nor does it mean that the person maligned should not be spoken up for.

 

We gained 20 MILLION members. Fact. Did Baptist gain 20 million members? No, they lost thousands! Don' t give me, 'how much did the population grow?' Your Baptist Churches are still losing members. Your pews are emptier. Lots of them are finding there ways into our Catholic Churches here in my town.

 

No, what did the ark contain in it. It was a symbol of the coming 'actual' Ark of the Covenant. She bore the True Covenant in her womb.

 

Carson Weber did a marvelous job showing how the Old Testament Ark of the Covenant was a type of the True Ark to come bearing the salvation of the World! I suggest you dig into the archives, it is well worth reading::wavey:

Oh, she did bear the 'presence of God'. No way around it. Either Jesus was God in the flesh or He wasn't. If he was not, you and I are wasting our time.

It has been said that I need to 'tone down my praise Mary on this board'. She was the vehicle that God provided to bring our salvation into world. She said the 'perfect yes to God' ' Do it unto me according to your Word'.

I honor the Most Blessed Mother God. I thank the Lord for giving her and St. Joseph as models of how to respond to God's call. Ordinary people, I think not.

No I won't tone down my honor of these wonderful saints of God. Maybe you need to realize their example of following Jesus no matter what the consequences in this life.

I also honor DHK and others on this board who take considerable risk which their livelihood, families and probably experience ridicule and rejection for presenting the gospel of Christ. They, too, deserve my honor, prayers, and respect.

:wavey:

 

You don't have a clue

 

I don't see how he was being deceptive - he regards himself as a Christian and is entitled to register as such.

 

I agree. It* was initially a Christological rather than Mariological statement which came to the fore in the Nestorian controversy.

*By 'it', I mean the term theotokos, which does not mean 'Mother of God' but rather 'Bearer of God'; the latter term is theologically quite correct as Mary did give birth to God the Son in His incarnate form and it doesn't have the connotations and implications of pre-existence and superiority of 'Mother of God'.