Christmas thoughts

There are statements both in the RCC catechism and in Vatican II which indicate that if one does not belong to the RCC they are eternally lost. So yes, the statement is true that all Protestants, according to the RCC, are on their way to Hell. Furthermore, have they ever rescinded the assertions that were made at the Council of Trent?

 

NO SALVATION OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH

"Concerning this doctrine the Pope of Vatican I, Pius IX, spoke on two different occasions. In an allocution (address to an audience) on December 9th, 1854 he said:

We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?

Again, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863 addressed to the Italian bishops, he said:

It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

These statements are consistent with the understanding of the Church contained in the documents of Vatican II, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as explaining why the rigorist position of Fr. Feeney (that all must be actual members of the Catholic Church to be saved) has been condemned by the Magisterium. It is ironic that precisely those who know their obligation to remain united to the Magisterium, and thus on whom this doctrine is morally binding, keep themselves from union with the Roman See on this point."

Yes, Fr. Feeney eventually was ex-communicated for holding to the position that accuse the Roman Catholic Church of holding. This has been pointed out to you time and time again and yet you still make your false accusations.

 

Well kids, I'm off to prepare for another evangelization retreat this weekend. I hope you all will pray that many people will come to know and trust in the Lord Jesus and become New Creations!

 

I can show you other quotes, but instead let's do it this way.
In John chapter three Jesus tell Nicodemus: "You must be born again." Nicodemus is confused. He doesn't know what Jesus means. Then Jesus explains what it means to be born again. There is a key verse in John 3:5:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

What does the "water" mean in this verse according the RCC?
Then how important does that become in their theology?
After you find out the answers to those questions, we will go from there.

 

Why would anyone give a rip what a Pope says? It is double talk, and the fact remains, the higher levels of the church think Protestants and Baptists are bound for hell. On the other hand, I do not know one person who thinks all Catholics are lost. Lets get a clear picture here. If there were people who thought that, it would be right here is the middle of the Bible belt.

You can print all the papal edicts you want, the facts remain the same.

 

Indeed. I'm merely pointing out the fact that you don't get to talk about "we" getting upset and calling people a heretic when you have done the exact same thing yourself.

As for what you said in response to my point about sacrificing meat to idols, I'm pretty sure the intent of Paul's words wasn't to give you a way to be manipulative.

 

A billion Catholics care about what a pope says. Who are these 'higher levels of the church' that you claim think that Protestants and Baptists 'bound for hell'? I never heard of such a thing. Not even when I was a Baptist.

 

Why do you think most of us are Calvinists? I don't think that's the case.

 

Maybe your right. It has just been my perception after visiting this board over the years. I know there are a number of denominations represented in this forum.

 

Here is the leader of your church masking the true belief that anyone not a Catholic is bound for hell. He creates a new catagory of people called "invincible ignorance." What a bunch of nonsense. Now, lets see what the person who created this catchy phrase believes and how it squares with the Bible.

I believe Scripture says if we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive. So lets see how you handle it. Lets go confess our sins with adjoining little rooms seperated by a sliding window to a flawed, sinful, human being that has probably committed more sins than I ever thought of. Makes sense to me. Come here choir boy.

I believe the Scripture say worship God only. That would be Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So lets see what you handle it. Lets lite cute little candles and pray to statues of Peter, Paul, and Mary (great name for a folk band), Patrick, Thomas, Willie, Waylan, and the boys. Makes sense to me. Hey, if you ever find yourself in time of trouble, Mother Mary may come to you.

Scripture says the lost are destined for the Lake of Fire. Lets see what you say. We not only have the Lake of Fire, we have purgatory, limbo (how low can you go), and a wireless router to the dead so we can pray them in and out of these various places until we get to heaven. Makes sense to me.

Lets sprinkle holy water on ourselves before each mass to make ourselves clean enough to enter the sanctuary. Heres your sign. It sells for 50 cents a bottle.

Yes indeedy, divorce is a terrible sin, but tell ya what give me so and so donation and we will make it anulled. God likes that.

On, and on, and on

And this clown has the nerve to call us invincibly ignorant. What an idiot.

 

No, you made an accusation that you can't support. I showed evidence that you misinterpret the meaning of 'no salvation outside the church'. Who are these 'high level' authorities of the RCC that say Baptist and other protestants are all going to hell. I show you evidence that at the highest level of authority in the RCC that you are mistaken and the comment comes back 'who cares what a pope says'.

The anti-Catholic venom spewed on this board is sad to see. You commented before that the RCC sent 'their top apologists to this board to recruit and to some degree they were successful.' Actually, I don't think Carson Webber would consider himself 'a top RCC apologist' but he sure was effective wasn't he? I'm not the only Baptist that eventually swam Tiber as a result. What is shame is that you learned nothing as a result of his debates with you, and when it was demonstrated that you made false accusations about Catholics you simply ignored the evidence or made another accusation.

I have followed this board for a long time and for the most part no longer find it edifying. Probably need to find a new hobby.

 

Great post!

 

This just shows total ignorance of Catholic teaching (and bigotry)

 

Facts are facts, and Scripture is Scripture, and you have not one leg to stand on.

 

Again I'll ask you, who are these 'high level authorities' you claim you know of. Where are YOUR facts?

 

I do have one question for you to give some thought. Do you actually think your heart was ever truly a Baptist and their core beliefs? I can understand going from Catholic to Baptist by spiritual maturity, but how do you go from Baptist to Catholic? What was going through your mind as you sat in a Bapitst church and heard the Gospel, or listened to a Wednesday night Bible study? It is much easier to understand going from say Presbyterian to Baptist, back and forth than this.

Another point, if as you claim, Protestants and Baptists are welcome into heaven with Catholics, why is your church so strict about closed communion. It would be easier to understand if there was within the Catholic Church the concept of a local autonomous church, but there is no such thing.

 

You have not refuted one point, either about confession, or divorce, or praying to statues, or closed communion. That isnt even bringing up regenerational baptism.

 

Oh, and BTW. There is a local Baptist pastor who was just convicted of the 'come here little choir boy' thing. Don't be so quick to throw those kind of stones.

 

The Catholic Church condemns praying to statues, pictures, icons, etc.

There is one.

 

Of course it does exist. It is just not a widespread hobby, and the Southern Baptist Convention has not paid out millions upon millions of dollars or a local church in damages.

And another thing, Baptist pastors who engage in such nonsense do not return to the pulpit. We do not transfer them to another parish.