Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Acts 4:12 (KJV)
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
John 8:56 (KJV)
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it , and was glad.
The only way to be saved is through faith in Christ
I am quite confused what Romans 2 has to do with this discussion. In that chapter Paul addresses how all Jews come under the condemnation of sin. He is not speaking of the gospel at all. Salvation is through Christ alone. What does chapter two of the book of Romans have to do with it?
Please explain Michael.
The discussion has taken this turn because this clown keeps spewing lies, slandering, and insulting me. He has compared me with Satan. He gets away with it, so I feel justified in defending myself in any appropriate way.
I have maintained that God makes provision for those who have not had a chance to hear the Gospel; I have provided historical evidence for others who have believed this, and I have provided scriptural support.
This clown has responded by going beyond questioning my salvation to comparing me with Satan; lied about what I believe and am doing in my ministry; mocked and attacked me personally, and misrepresented my position. He is the most vile and dishonest creature calling himself a Christian I have ever encountered on any forum.
I do not deny the truth of Romans 2.
You twist the truth or Romans 2.
In Paul's letter to the Romans he reveals that God has concluded that all have sinned and that the wages for that sin is death, but that the gift of eternal life is through Jesus Christ the Lord.
One must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ or that one will die in his sin.
It is you who is guilty of denying the truth of Romans 2, not I.
Jesus said
"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me."
The deceiver says one doesn't even have to know Jesus to be saved.
The Apostle Paul said Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His (Jesus Christ's) mercy He saved us.
The deceiver says one can be saved apart from Jesus Christ.
Jesus said "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
The deceiver says everyone has that light... even those who don't know Jesus.
I'll take my chances with the Bible.
The deceiver is batting 0 thus far.
Jesus said that He is the door and if any man enter in by any other way he is a thief and a robber.
The deceiver says man doesn't even have to know who Jesus is.
The deceiver is training spiritual thieves and robbers.
It doesn't matter what Fred says, it matters what the Bible says. My question to you was: What does Romans 2 have to do with this discussion on faith, especially, salvation is by faith.
I am sorry but God doesn't have "history" outside of the Bible. So any such "history must be discounted.
What you "maintain" must be in accordance with Scripture or else it must be discounted.
I am not interested in what he has said about you. Why have you posted Romans 2 as a defense for your position? What has that got to do with the price of peanuts these days?
You are correct, archbishop sounds like a cult leader, looks like a cult leader, and acts like a cult leader.
Yep, must be the leader of his own little made up cult.
His teaching that one can be saved apart from faith in Christ is contrary to "not of works lest any man should boast."
His teaching that one can be saved apart from faith in Christ is contrary to "he that believeth not is condemned already."
If I understand correctly, the debate has moved to the question of whether someone can be saved who has never heard the gospel.
It seems rational to hold that one cannot be condemned for unbelief of something he's never heard.
Yet the scriptures are clear that one is saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
So, on what basis is such a person condemned?
I believe Romans 2:14-15 provides the answer.
I suggest that these verses mean that all of us have a sense of right and wrong.
In other words, we have a moral code of some kind.
Those who have never heard the gospel will be judged against their own moral code.
Of course, they can't even live up to their own code.
So when they are condemned, they will acknowledge that the judgment is just.
Tom, if someone is suggesting that mere ignorance of the gospel keeps them out of hell then please lets keep the gospel a secret and keep all men in ignorance so none will go to hell.