Featured Has your opinion the death penalty changed after SC church massacre?

Rebel

Hello Rebel,
It is clear you have not studied this issue that much. You are approaching it all wrong.

It seems as if you do not understand the nature of the Old Covenant and our relationship to it.

Do you believe that anything before Matthew is scripture?

What do you think it means?

Was there ever a death penalty?

If there was did it go away?

 

With your hate for most of the posters on this board, are you ready for the Book of Life to be opened?

 

God has spoken very clearly on this issue in all of scripture. We do not have to seek to do any such thing as you suggest.....we just need to study the issue out.


30 Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.

31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.
32 And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.

33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.
34 Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the Lord dwell among the children of Israel.

You say that Jesus did not teach it. Who gave the law to Moses?
13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Who had Paul write this command?

 

Did Jesus kill anyone?

 

And now contrast all of this with the actual words of Jesus. Jesus is the image of God in human form and in character. Jesus hold us to a higher standard. Do we attempt to follow Him, or do we resort to Old Covenant ethics?

 

Obeying God's commands is part of faith. Reasoning away the death penalty is not faith.

 

Is being angry with someone killing one?

 

With your hate for most of the black folks in the world, are you ready to stand before God and be judged?

 

[post questioning salvation of a brother snipped; infraction points given]

 

God's for it, so am I.

 

You guys are so bad. Can't you talk about an issue with character assassinations or questioning another's salvation or imputing false motives or any number of other things?

 

Didn't we just do that?

 

There is no need to look at for any contrast as Jesus was a law keeper and law giver.
The death penalty pre dated Mosaic legislation. It has never been repealed.and nothing cleanses the land except the blood of the murderer.

 

You are making an attempt to divide the old covenant from God and even Jesus Himself as if they are two different things. This would be wrong. Further Jesus never suggested that government cannot or should not administer justice via the death penalty.

The government administering justice via the death penalty is completely different than an individual killing and individual out of revenge. It is a theological error to try to use Christ to justify being against the death penalty. It is just not in view.

 

First, I would admonish all who have been attacking one another rather than caring for the genuine opinion of your brother or sister in Christ. In this case, you have all been anti-Christ, so please stop. I will be the first to admit that I understand the temptation, and fall into on occasion. But the fact remains that is it not what a Christian should do. That is why they call us hypocrites.

Now, let us stop our bickering and consider why we would support the death penalty.

Is it because we want to get this criminal off the streets? We can do that through the prison system, which has an incredible success rate at keeping (long-term) bad people off the streets. This particular case in upper state New York is an exception to the rule, yes, but it proves the rule that we are so focused on this one instance. So, it probably isn't an issue of safety.

Is it because it's cheaper? Well, no. It's actually several hundred thousand dollars more to execute someone after all of the necessary trials and whatnot than it would be to lock him up for life in the most expensive penitentiaries in the world--California. We would save a lot of money if we locked them up for life rather than killed them. So, it can't really be about the money.

Is it out of a sense of justice? Perhaps. But consider the story of John 8, where Jesus drew a line in the sand and declared to the hypocritical Pharisees, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." Clearly, our sense of justice in this case is not God's sense of justice. Where we want destruction, God seeks redemption. Consider further the case of Jonah, who was forced against his will to preach to a people who had scattered his own among the nations, not to mention exacting heavy taxes on them which crippled their internal economy. He would be justifiably angry. Yet, while he cries out for their destruction, God gives them extra time to be redeemed. So, God's justice doesn't seem to justify it.

Is it because the Old Testament tells us to? Well, I suppose I should be the first to go. I ate two slices of bacon this morning, and then thought about how much I hate the driver in front of me, effectively murdering him. Then, I saw your posts, and thought about how the two of you were stabbing each other with long, pointy lives. So I suppose you two would be next. And don't forget all of the other people on the world, lining up to be executed. If we were all killed according to the laws of the Old Testament, we would all be dead. We don't get to pick willy-nilly the laws that we follow and the laws we do not. Furthermore, some of the earliest Talmudic writing is over the fact that these executions never actually happened. Instead, they say these sins are a cultural and spiritual death; cutting one's self off from God's commandments meant the destruction of a connection between both your community and your God. So, we can't look to the Old Testament for guidance on the death penalty.

Is it out of anger? Here I would say yes. When I heard about the death of these nine godly men and women, my heart was torn apart. I felt a rage building up inside after this initial sadness, and yes, I questioned my conviction when it comes to the death penalty. But I then asked myself, "Am I controlling this anger to used to find God's justice and mercy, or am I using this anger to build up my own self-righteousness?" When I heard the words of forgiveness from the families of the victims, I knew my answer. My desire to kill their murderer was out of a sense of justice, but not out of one of mercy.

Consider the life of this young man. He was reportedly a very lonely teenager, who turned to white supremacy to fill a deep longing in his soul for companionship and love. I imagine that his father, who taught him to hate and who gave him a gun, was not a responsible nor loving man. He was probably hurt and bullied.

He is terribly broken.
I am terribly broken.

And the only reason I am in this world today is because God has pulled together some of my broken pieces and surrounded me with a group of wonderful and also broken people. Sure, this young man is more broken than most of us, but is brokenness something to kill someone for?

I don't think so.

And thus, my resolve to treat the criminal with love stands. I believe that when Christ calls us to love our neighbors, He doesn't just mean those who haven't hurt us. God still loves this man, and longs for his redemption. For those of you who believe he can only be saved in this life, why would you not want to give him as long a time as possible to respond to God's call?

 

The scripture and comments that I've seen in support of it have come from the Old Testament and Old Covenant ethics. What Jesus said and did is avoided. Strange for those calling themselves Christian, don't you think?

 

This is one of the best posts I have ever read, anywhere and on any subject. Thank you for this.