How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Matt22:37-39, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. Oldtimer New Member

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    Zaac, I am not the church... lower case. The true Church ... upper case... is His Church.

    You seem to be leaving out of your posts are the roles of INDIVIDUALS and their conduct with other individuals who are/are not members of the true Church.

    A mightly broad paintbrush you are wielding with terms such as the church, the Church and the masses.

    When a pastor steps into the pulpit all who are gathered hear his sermon. Yet, isn't it true that every word he speaks is directed towards each individual, separately, regardless of how many sit in front of him?

    If his sermon, for example, is based on the thief on the cross, his words are to be heard individually. For those already in the body of Christ, his sermon is simply an affirmation of what they already believe. Today you will be with me in Paradise. For those, in Christ, who have drifted away, his words can evoke a revival of hearing the whisper of the Holy Spirit in their heart. For the backslidden, his words can bring about remorse. And, for the lost, his words can, once again offer hope that the Holy Spirit can turn into conviction.

    One pastor. One sermon. Individual and differing responses.

    Condemnation of the "church", as a whole, does not take into consideration all of the variables associated with both individual assemblies of believers and unique & separate individuals within the church, the Church.

    FWIW..... IMO....

    ** Using the term "church" in this manner evokes thoughts of "collective salvation" that's often promoted as the only way to heaven.

    ** Using the term "church" in this manner is just as detrimental to the unbeliever as those signs posted earlier. Why should any unbeliever accept anything condemed by the very persons who are urging them to become a part of what is being condemed?

    How can I go to my lost neighbor or the fellow I meet in the hardware store and ask him to come to my church? Ask him to come to continue to hear the message of salvation? Ask him to come and join us in fellowship? When I condem my church and these people know that I have done so.

    Brother, it's a fine line that we walk. Whether we are laymen, deacons, elders, pastors, SS teachers, or keeping the nursery. I don't know about anyone else, so can only speak for myself. In my zeal to make my point, I try to keep that line in view. No. I'm not always successful. First one to admit that much to my sorrow. :tear: That does not mean that it does not exist.

    Blame some individuals and some named churches - yes judge some. You will know them by their fruit.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Blame the church, the Church as a whole
     
  2. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the Lord will freely forgive and reddem the gay person, for its by grace we are saved, NOT our good works/nor behaviours, and some experience a total victory over those desires, most though still must deal with daily temptations of theflesh, same way straght folfs like me still have to deal with ole sin principle on a daily fashion!

    its not they will not be gay acting again, but are they repentent, and know its sin?
     
  3. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    I agree with most of this the part I have a problem with is..."their sinful behavior being an abomination"...instead of looking at it that way, how about looking at as "a destructive behavior" to themselves...and do all we can to be set from BONDAGE and not add more bondage to them?
     
  4. annsni Well-Known Member
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    But shouldn't we look at it as God looks at it and not downplay the severity of the sin?
     
  5. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    You are right and is exactly my point (if anyone noticed in my op) that Jesus and Paul talked more about hetero sex outside of marriage then he did gays...only 2 verses from Paul....and they talked about divorce more...but that seems to be juts fine in the church, especially if a Christian man leaves his wife unbiblically and not the other way around....just saying....gluttony too...oh I coukd go on
     
  6. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    SORRY BUT WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW (old testament) WE ARE UNDER GRACE!...There is NO longer condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus!
     
  7. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Why should they listen to us...they are of the world and unless Jesus changes their hearts, why should YOU or anyone else expect them to act godly?

    People change from the inside out and it isn't for you to worry about peoples sin in a DARK WORLD...it is our job to BE LIGHT, we are to let our light shine so that they may want what we have and be drawn to the LIGHT/JESUS....I doubt most sinners in the world really want what we have when we/others act the way we do...get it?

    Satan was giving dominion over this earth...our citizenship is in heaven not here...so all we do should be foced on that and bringing others to a new world that is much better
    No where in the bible did Jesus get all political and demand any community he was in to "CHANGE" or else...if you can find it please show me.
     
  8. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    I was going to post something like that yesterday but forgot thanks...that is the picture that was in my head....sad!
     
  9. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Yep missing the point, when I cleaned houses in the 90's, I cleaned for a gay man and I witnessed to him, I wasn't all about calling him names and pointing out his SIN with a label...I merely shared with him that we are ALL sinners and basically how I came to know Jesus and basically gave him the salvation message like I would do anyone else...not pointing fingers at his particular sin but the fact that because of a sin nature we are separated from a holy God....stuff like. What do I care what sin anyone has...FOR BY THE GRACE OF GOD THERE GO I
     
  10. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    I doubt very much you look at homosexuality the way God does...for he made each person. Only he knows what drove someone to become gay...being molested as a child, being abused by the opposite sex growing up, a natural innate tendencies towards it like other sins people have...Cholerics/anger and pride...Melancholies/critical and depression...Sanguines/impulsive and indulgent....Phlegmatics/Lazy and worry....we don't know why...and who really cares, the point is bring them to Christ the way Jesus would an let God fix them.

    We live in a fallen world...so get use to be surrounded by a bunch of sinners
     
  11. Oldtimer New Member

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    God doesn't change.

    I said:
    "destructive behavior"
    "BONDAGE"

    and any other labels we do or do not chose to use does not change the wording in the scriptures. God doesn't change. We, as individuals, must change by allowing the Holy Spirit within us (if He's there) to work.

    If I am teaching a child that a stove is hot and they will get burned if they touch it, how does it help if I remove the word HOT from my words of instruction.

    The stove is HOT. That single word conveys what should be conveyed to warn a child in the strongest possible terms that it is wrong to touch that stove.

    IMO, that' exactly what God did when he labled certain sins "abominations". To convey the strongest warnings, just as we would with a child. Regardless of how we may, with good intentions, try to whitewash something, reality exists.

    The stove is HOT. Stay away from it so you don't suffer from placing your hand on that stove.

    Yes, we are to temper our instructions with kindness. However, I don't know anywhere in the scriptures that states we should put lesser emphasis on sin (of any type) than what is proclaimed in His Word. God has already shown mercy since stoning is no longer the penalty that was imposed before Jesus walked on this earth.
     
  12. annsni Well-Known Member
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    Sin drives one to become gay. Yes, there are events in people's lives that may contribute but bottom line, it is a sin nature which drives us to sin.

    Yes, I'm used to being surrounded by a bunch of sinners. I've even had homosexuals live in my home while they escaped abusive situations. So it's not like I treat them like lepers - but just as I told my friend who is a coke addict that what he is doing is sin, I also counseled my friend who was escaping the abusive situation that the lifestyle she was living in was sin as well. It's no different. I'm not going to accept either one as "good" because God doesn't see them as "good" either.
     
  13. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    wow, why can't you just accept people for being CREATED by God in His image...why do you label them?..I play lots of sports so I am around many lesbians...and I have never once called them out on their sin...now if they want to know how to have the FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT that I have I will share or if the conversation comes up...or anything about God I will share....but I also NEVER PUSH or start condemning anyone when I witness to them...sin is sin and Jesus came and died to change ALL of their condition, not just the homosexual part....seriously?

    Which is worse?....STEALING a dollar bill or a hundred dollar bill?

    Neither they are both sin cause it is the fact that you stole....That is how God see's it...He doesn't put people in categories like you do...He died for everyone's sin no matter what it is....so stop labeling and love and accept people juts because they are people...who need a savior...and it AINT YOU!
     
  14. Oldtimer New Member

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    What are abominations according to the Bible?
    http://richardwaynegarganta.com/abomination.htm

    Next link checked:

    The following is a list of things the Bible considers an abomination:
    http://www.sodahead.com/living/the-... of things the Bible considers an abomination
    Is it an abomination to steal the work of others?
     
  15. Zaac Well-Known Member

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  16. Zaac Well-Known Member

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    I say the Church because the Church is at fault. When the Church becomes know for being against something, it's not because one or two individuals are against it, but because en masse, the Church has made noise about it.

    And if only we'd make the same sort of noise en masse about loving folks and sharing the Good News.
     
  17. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    The following is a list of things the Bible considers an abomination:

    Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
    Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
    Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
    Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
    Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
    Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
    A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
    A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
    A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
    Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
    A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
    Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
    A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
    A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
    Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
    A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
    Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
    The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
    The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
    The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
    Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
    Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
    Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
    Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
    Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
    Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
    Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
    Some same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18) See GayPrejudice.com
    Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
    Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
    Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
    Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
    Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5) See GayPrejudice.com
    Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God's house (Dt. 23:18)
    Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
    Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
    Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
    Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
    Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
    Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
    Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
    Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
    Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
    Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
    Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
    Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
    Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
    Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)

    It is abundantly clear from scripture that ALL SIN is considered an abomination by God. While one can debate degrees of seriousness and punishment for sin, it is clear that, according to the Bible, ALL sin is an abomination!
     
  18. Zaac Well-Known Member

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    :applause: And that's what Jesus expects of us. But this turning and treating these people like they are modern day lepers just because we disagree with them "flaunting" their sin is straight wickedness coming from the Church. Yet once again, we think our actions are Godly.

    God help us that He never treated us the way that we treat others now that we are saved.
     
  19. Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Bumped it up
     
  20. Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Now ain't that something? Scripture considers all that an abomination. And I say again, after last fall and the justifying the wicked, the Church needs to lay off calling something an abomination in order to emphasize its point.