Zaac, I am not the church... lower case. The true Church ... upper case... is His Church.
You seem to be leaving out of your posts are the roles of INDIVIDUALS and their conduct with other individuals who are/are not members of the true Church.
A mightly broad paintbrush you are wielding with terms such as the church, the Church and the masses.
When a pastor steps into the pulpit all who are gathered hear his sermon. Yet, isn't it true that every word he speaks is directed towards each individual, separately, regardless of how many sit in front of him?
If his sermon, for example, is based on the thief on the cross, his words are to be heard individually. For those already in the body of Christ, his sermon is simply an affirmation of what they already believe. Today you will be with me in Paradise. For those, in Christ, who have drifted away, his words can evoke a revival of hearing the whisper of the Holy Spirit in their heart. For the backslidden, his words can bring about remorse. And, for the lost, his words can, once again offer hope that the Holy Spirit can turn into conviction.
One pastor. One sermon. Individual and differing responses.
Condemnation of the "church", as a whole, does not take into consideration all of the variables associated with both individual assemblies of believers and unique & separate individuals within the church, the Church.
FWIW..... IMO....
** Using the term "church" in this manner evokes thoughts of "collective salvation" that's often promoted as the only way to heaven.
** Using the term "church" in this manner is just as detrimental to the unbeliever as those signs posted earlier. Why should any unbeliever accept anything condemed by the very persons who are urging them to become a part of what is being condemed?
How can I go to my lost neighbor or the fellow I meet in the hardware store and ask him to come to my church? Ask him to come to continue to hear the message of salvation? Ask him to come and join us in fellowship? When I condem my church and these people know that I have done so.
Brother, it's a fine line that we walk. Whether we are laymen, deacons, elders, pastors, SS teachers, or keeping the nursery. I don't know about anyone else, so can only speak for myself. In my zeal to make my point, I try to keep that line in view. No. I'm not always successful. First one to admit that much to my sorrow. :tear: That does not mean that it does not exist.
Blame some individuals and some named churches - yes judge some. You will know them by their fruit.
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Blame the church, the Church as a whole
How should christians treat the saved homosexual?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Matt22:37-39, Apr 12, 2013.
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its not they will not be gay acting again, but are they repentent, and know its sin? -
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SORRY BUT WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW (old testament) WE ARE UNDER GRACE!...There is NO longer condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus! -
People change from the inside out and it isn't for you to worry about peoples sin in a DARK WORLD...it is our job to BE LIGHT, we are to let our light shine so that they may want what we have and be drawn to the LIGHT/JESUS....I doubt most sinners in the world really want what we have when we/others act the way we do...get it?
Satan was giving dominion over this earth...our citizenship is in heaven not here...so all we do should be foced on that and bringing others to a new world that is much better
No where in the bible did Jesus get all political and demand any community he was in to "CHANGE" or else...if you can find it please show me. -
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We live in a fallen world...so get use to be surrounded by a bunch of sinners -
I said:
"BONDAGE"
and any other labels we do or do not chose to use does not change the wording in the scriptures. God doesn't change. We, as individuals, must change by allowing the Holy Spirit within us (if He's there) to work.
If I am teaching a child that a stove is hot and they will get burned if they touch it, how does it help if I remove the word HOT from my words of instruction.
The stove is HOT. That single word conveys what should be conveyed to warn a child in the strongest possible terms that it is wrong to touch that stove.
IMO, that' exactly what God did when he labled certain sins "abominations". To convey the strongest warnings, just as we would with a child. Regardless of how we may, with good intentions, try to whitewash something, reality exists.
The stove is HOT. Stay away from it so you don't suffer from placing your hand on that stove.
Yes, we are to temper our instructions with kindness. However, I don't know anywhere in the scriptures that states we should put lesser emphasis on sin (of any type) than what is proclaimed in His Word. God has already shown mercy since stoning is no longer the penalty that was imposed before Jesus walked on this earth. -
Yes, I'm used to being surrounded by a bunch of sinners. I've even had homosexuals live in my home while they escaped abusive situations. So it's not like I treat them like lepers - but just as I told my friend who is a coke addict that what he is doing is sin, I also counseled my friend who was escaping the abusive situation that the lifestyle she was living in was sin as well. It's no different. I'm not going to accept either one as "good" because God doesn't see them as "good" either. -
Which is worse?....STEALING a dollar bill or a hundred dollar bill?
Neither they are both sin cause it is the fact that you stole....That is how God see's it...He doesn't put people in categories like you do...He died for everyone's sin no matter what it is....so stop labeling and love and accept people juts because they are people...who need a savior...and it AINT YOU! -
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/abomination.htm
Next link checked:
The following is a list of things the Bible considers an abomination:
http://www.sodahead.com/living/the-... of things the Bible considers an abomination
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Oldtimer said: ↑Zaac, I am not the church... lower case. The true Church ... upper case... is His Church.
You seem to be leaving out of your posts are the roles of INDIVIDUALS and their conduct with other individuals who are/are not members of the true Church.
A mightly broad paintbrush you are wielding with terms such as the church, the Church and the masses.
When a pastor steps into the pulpit all who are gathered hear his sermon. Yet, isn't it true that every word he speaks is directed towards each individual, separately, regardless of how many sit in front of him?
If his sermon, for example, is based on the thief on the cross, his words are to be heard individually. For those already in the body of Christ, his sermon is simply an affirmation of what they already believe. Today you will be with me in Paradise. For those, in Christ, who have drifted away, his words can evoke a revival of hearing the whisper of the Holy Spirit in their heart. For the backslidden, his words can bring about remorse. And, for the lost, his words can, once again offer hope that the Holy Spirit can turn into conviction.
One pastor. One sermon. Individual and differing responses.
Condemnation of the "church", as a whole, does not take into consideration all of the variables associated with both individual assemblies of believers and unique & separate individuals within the church, the Church.
FWIW..... IMO....
** Using the term "church" in this manner evokes thoughts of "collective salvation" that's often promoted as the only way to heaven.
** Using the term "church" in this manner is just as detrimental to the unbeliever as those signs posted earlier. Why should any unbeliever accept anything condemed by the very persons who are urging them to become a part of what is being condemed?
How can I go to my lost neighbor or the fellow I meet in the hardware store and ask him to come to my church? Ask him to come to continue to hear the message of salvation? Ask him to come and join us in fellowship? When I condem my church and these people know that I have done so.
Brother, it's a fine line that we walk. Whether we are laymen, deacons, elders, pastors, SS teachers, or keeping the nursery. I don't know about anyone else, so can only speak for myself. In my zeal to make my point, I try to keep that line in view. No. I'm not always successful. First one to admit that much to my sorrow. :tear: That does not mean that it does not exist.
Blame some individuals and some named churches - yes judge some. You will know them by their fruit.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blame the church, the Church as a wholeClick to expand...
And if only we'd make the same sort of noise en masse about loving folks and sharing the Good News. -
The following is a list of things the Bible considers an abomination:
Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
Some same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18) See GayPrejudice.com
Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5) See GayPrejudice.com
Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God's house (Dt. 23:18)
Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)
It is abundantly clear from scripture that ALL SIN is considered an abomination by God. While one can debate degrees of seriousness and punishment for sin, it is clear that, according to the Bible, ALL sin is an abomination! -
Matt22:37-39 said: ↑Yep missing the point, when I cleaned houses in the 90's, I cleaned for a gay man and I witnessed to him, I wasn't all about calling him names and pointing out his SIN with a label...I merely shared with him that we are ALL sinners and basically how I came to know Jesus and basically gave him the salvation message like I would do anyone else...not pointing fingers at his particular sin but the fact that because of a sin nature we are separated from a holy God....stuff like. What do I care what sin anyone has...FOR BY THE GRACE OF GOD THERE GO IClick to expand...
God help us that He never treated us the way that we treat others now that we are saved. -
Bumped it up
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Matt22:37-39 said: ↑The following is a list of things the Bible considers an abomination:
Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
Some same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18) See GayPrejudice.com
Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5) See GayPrejudice.com
Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God's house (Dt. 23:18)
Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)
It is abundantly clear from scripture that ALL SIN is considered an abomination by God. While one can debate degrees of seriousness and punishment for sin, it is clear that, according to the Bible, ALL sin is an abomination!Click to expand...
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