How do you understand the words of Jesus in Luke 13: especially verse 3 where he says "except ye repent you will perish"
Just curious
Thanks in advance
Romans 5:1
Ifb evangelists
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by evangelist6589, Jan 8, 2015.
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Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
For once I would like to see a post by Evan6589 that does not contain the words "Calvinist", "easy believism" "Way of the Master", WOTM, or "MacArthur".
To answer the OP: No, you can't work with this person. Don't do it. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You're welcome in advance. -
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Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I would like to point out the definition of "repent" is not 'turn from your sin' or 'feel sorry for you sin', though turning from your sin and feeling sorry about it is a direct consequence of 'changing your mind' about Jesus. -
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You have as much sense as a goat! I include books because they help me understand scripture and theology better.
A previous poster that compared a Mac book to a Catholic book also showed little sense. Catholic theology is not backed by scripture and the books they write have a mix of it and tradition that goes against scripture. MacArthur is very well versed in scripture. -
Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I would like to make a few comments about repentance, Repentance absolutely is necessary, there are many who will not get saved because they know that getting saved will change them, and many of them do not want to be saved out of sin, I have met people who told me they believed Christ died for them, they believed they were a sinner, but they would not trust in Christ, because they love their sin too much. So in this situation, this person must repent of their sin and have a changed of mind and heart about sin in general, usually the king pin sins in their lives.
I believe the Lord has really given me clarity on this issue of repentance.
When I got saved, There were a lot of things in my life that I did not even know were sinful, so when I got saved it wasn't like I made a conscious decision to turn away from all my sins, it was more of like I just knew I was wicked and I "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ"
Lordship Salvation is heretical, because every day I realize more and more just how wicked I truly am and God shows me every day areas where he is in fact not Lord in my life, and any honest believing Christian who takes any time to evaluate themselves will agree with this.
In Acts 17:31 Paul talks about how God commands all men everywhere to repent, this is in the context of him speaking to idol worshipers, This is because in order to truly trust in Jesus Christ and him alone, you must turn from your idols that you are trusting in, this is also the same thing I believe Paul is talking about in 1 Th 1:9.
Peter says in Acts 2 to repent, but he's talking in context to the Jews who have rejected Jesus, so I believe he's commanding them to repent of their unbelief of the Messiah and their rejection of him, a almost identical event takes place in Acts 3 with another command to repent.
Then of course you have the example in Luke 13:3 to repent, if you look at the context, it's very obvious that what Jesus is commanding to repent of is self righteousness, which prevents a person from truly believing on Christ.
So then we come to the question, must a person repent of sin to be saved? well it all comes down to what you mean repent of sin, if you mean that in order to be saved a person must be willing to go home, and pour out all their alcohol, throw away their pornography, and stop sinning, and this is what you mean when you say "turn from your sins" than you are preaching heresy and you have placed the focus on a self works. I believe repenting of sin is simply that if your love of sin is preventing you from placing your faith in Christ, because you know he will changed you and you don't want to be changed, than yes you must repent of your sin because it is preventing you from trusting in Christ.
For example, Jesus said it is better to pluck your eye out, then to be cast into hell with both, Jesus is simply teaching that you need to turn from anything that is preventing you from receiving salvation,
4Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
If someone loves their life to much to turn to Christ, then they will die and go to hell, so repenting of sin, really is turning from the love of sin which is preventing one to receiving and trust on Christ.
The problem is many people never study out the context of when the word repent is used, and they often reference something they have heard from someone else like a parrot and they will simply quote something like Luke 13:3 and say "look it says to repent, so you must turn from your sins to be saved". This is dangerous especially to people who go around telling people that they have to turn from their sin to be saved, a lost person cannot stop sinning if they do not have the spirit of God, and when you tell people this you are placing a huge stumbling block in the way of them being saved, and it can often turn into works salvation.
The word repent, carries the idea of a change of mind, heart, and attitude. The question you must always ask is, when the bible uses the word repent, what is it saying there must be a change of mind, heart, and attitude about?I challenge you people who hold such strong views about repentance to actually go and look at the context of how the word is used and do a biblical study on it., if you will go to these passages I have mentioned, and look at the context of where repenting is being commanded I know that the Lord will give you clarity if you seek it. Stop reading books on repentance, stop listening to preacher, go straight to the texts and passages that use the word, and it will help you understand the doctrine of repentance greatly. -
It is like the person who goes to church every Sunday for their entire life and says something is true, just because their pastor says it is. I personal, would rather be a Berean than a follower of another preacher. -
Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Of course, faith in Christ is an action. “Salvation” is not something that we possess – it is a promise from God toward us.
You seem to be using the word, “work,” as a synonym for earning something. Works are actions, earning is an attitude. If you are active in the religious realm, thinking you are meriting or earning favor, you are in severe error. If you are active, doing good works for the glory of God and because they are the right thing to do, you are cooperating with God.
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Excellent post, Jordan.
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2180332#post2180332 -
Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Lordship Salvation is scary, the other night the Holy Spirit of God came upon me so powerfully, that me and my dear brother in Christ began talking and self examining and weeping, we became so aware of the presence of God that it became obvious to me that there are so many areas where I fall short of the glory of God, and I was reminded that my righteousness is as filthy rags. How anyone who knows themselves and their nature, someone who really knows how wicked they are, could ever go around and preach Lordship Salvation, is beyond me, they are like Pharisees who taught heavy burdens to the people, and did not even bear them themselves.
What's the difference between teaching complete obedience to the O.T. Law, and teaching complete surrender to the Lordship of Christ in all areas in order to be saved? a person obeying the O.T. Law is submitting to the Lordship of Jehova as his will was revealed at that time, but we know that keeping the O.T. Law doesn't save, and neither does keeping the N.T. Law's that still apply today. what is submitting to the Lordship of Christ if not keeping his commandments as we are told to do in John 14 and 15?
What does it really mean to make Christ "Lord" of your life, if it doesn't mean to obey him?
And if in the Old Testament obedience to the commands of Jehova did not bring salvation,why would obedience to Christ (making him "Lord") in the N.T. bring salvation?
LS is works with subtle words changed. -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
For you anti-Lordshipers
How do you understand Luke 14:25-35
He says-they are not worthy
Luke 6:46 also demonstrates following Jesus as Lord
True saving faith results in obedient holy living. Notice that true saving faith changes us -
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
nevermind this post
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Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
The parables are about discipleship and are directed to disciples not to those ones that are first trusting Christ. There is a doctrine of sanctification that needs to be considered.
Most new Christians would never be at the place to obey Luke 14:26,27, especially the day they are saved. Those verses are written to mature Christians, those who Christ is commanding to go the mission field, for example. Would you send a new believer to the nation of India when he hardly knows the gospel himself?
Would he be willing to forsake all that he has including his own family just one day after he is saved? Really?
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