Is Drinking Wine Wrong??

If there was ever one verse that proved the fallacy of the "Christians are forbidden from drinking alcohol" argument it's Deut.14:26

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.

 

I myself have always hated the stuff, and would be happy if it didn't exist. It's like some kind of chemical with that warm feeling inside when you drink it, and I wonder how anyone can get themselves to like it, let alone become hooked on it. I only endure it once a year in my mother's egg nog (which is otherwise delicious) because it is necessary to sterilize ("cook") the eggs, and she tried a recipe once where you cook the eggs first (on the stove), and then don't need rum, and we ended up with this soup full of little bits of egg. :eek: I have also suffered at the hands of alcoholics. To me, anything that tastes like that, I would think they should take all of it that has been made already and use it for fuel; get rid of gas and oil.

But I notice that one side can produce scriptures showing it was allowed in the Bible. The other side then has to come and say, what amounts to, "Oh, that doesn't really mean that; it means something else", and then throw up other verses that appear to forbid all alcohol, creating contradiction. (And if you want to be literal, most alcohol you see in bottles is not red). Even if those verses didn't mean what they appear to say, with that kind of marginal "evidence", all of this "refuse to see the light choose to walk in darkness because their deeds are evil/'they loved the darkness rather than light."; "decieved", "sinning willfully", "God is watching" rhetoric (Just like the unbiblical IFB music position) is way out of line, and you're the ones who will answer to God for it.
The truth may possibly be a bit closer to your side, (given that it is is better iif man never touches the stuff, and people don't know when to stop) but it is clear you do not have enough scriptural justification for those types of remarks. If God intended us to treat it like he told the Jews to treat unkosher food, then He probably would not have allowed them to take the chance with grape juice in that climate at all, or allow it even if it wasn't as strong as our alcohol today, when there was a possibility of becoming drunk from it.

 

This is one of my favorite passages for debating (against) the tithe (in the nt church)!

 

oh boy - you just dont understand the drinking the wine is not a matter of righteousness. get that in your head. because scripture states it. romans 14 if you care to read it at all.

drinking alcohol is not a matter of whether its righteous or not - if it was - the scriptures would say more about it - and outright condemn it.

if someone is drunk - they have no control over their tongue - and it is what their tongue does that is a matter of righteousness.

for out of the mouth comes corrupt things. especially when one is drunk off of wine.
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annsi... first glass of wine i had - i was wobbling all over the place the rest of the night... what's that tell you? that i wouldn't beable to drive - and would be charged with a dui.
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For the kingdom of God IS NOT meat and DRINK; BUT RIGHTEOUSNESS, PEACE, and JOY in the Holy Ghost.

(caps for emphasis not yelling)
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some people's kids...

 

Those proponents of moderation with respect to intoxicating beverages might suggest that this text sanctions and encourages the drinking of beer and alcoholic wine. To be fair, it appears to be so, but this is not the case. In examining this passage we will learn that the book of Deuteronomy furnishes us with a perfect example of the following:

A) a correct understanding of the generic words which are used for "wine" and "strong drink" respectfully.
B) a proper application of the law of context
C) a complete understanding of God's view on the subject of drinking.

Now in returning to the text, we will see that the Bible itself conclusively refutes any suggestions whatsoever that this text endorses the use of alcoholic drinks.

We have already learned in our studies that the words translated "wine" [yayin] and "strong drink" [shekar] here are generic, and may refer to fresh grape juice and a sweet pleasant drink which was unfermented. What kind of beverage is this verse referring to? Since it may be argued that this text can be interpreted according to one's own particular bias, the answer is very simple. Deuteronomy 29:6 explains:

Here this passage proves that the "wine" and "strong drink" in chapter 14: 26 cannot be the same as that mentioned here! The inspired text later goes on to explain in no uncertain terms exactly what kind of wine the Jews did drink. It reads:

Here Moses names among the many blessings of the Lord, pure fresh grape juice known as "the blood of the grape" which was highly esteemed.

excerpt from "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" by Leighton G. Campbell pp. 91, 92

 

HP: I am in no way trying to suggest that a good cop will write a ticket for DUI if he knows one has been drinking, but neither do I believe a cop would not write a ticket, or that it is illegal to write a ticket if in his estimation at the time the driver was indeed DUI. Is it not the officers job to write a ticket for the maximum chargeable offense if ‘in his estimation at the time of the alleged infraction’ the charge appears to be valid, then let the attorney’s decide if in fact the state or city will go ahead with prosecution,file the original or lesser charges, or drop the charges all together as they see fit?

It has been my observation in similar cases that the arresting officer literally throws the book at some and then allows the attorney's and courts to decide which charges will stick or not. The point as I understand it is that after the charges have been filed, they cannot increase the original charge but they can reduce the ones they have charged one with. This obviously leads to charging individuals with offenses such as DUI on the spot that might in fact be dropped latter on. What is illegal about that?

I am clearly aware that I may be wrong with DUI cases, I am just presenting what I have thought to be the case at least in some instances.

 

If a cop pulls someone over and asks them if they have had anything to drink and that person says one beer, it is that cop's duty to ticket the driver. If he does not, he is not doing his job.

 

either show a source for that, or tell specifically of your own experience therein, whichever side of the exchange you were on. And also, give your response to a scripture passage you were given a few pages ago:

If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
(which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? [Colossians 2:20-22]

since you overtly contradicted this passage in your postings, it must be what he's got directly below it.

[please refrain from personal attacks, and post to the topic at hand]

 

Alcott--

I find your name calling offensive--whether you agree or not---your language is uncalled for. Making fun of somebody's bald head (my husband's) and implying that he has no brains is extremely un-Christlike. Are you trying to get this thread closed?

 

Your attack on the messenger just because you disagree with the message just shows me and others that stand on the truth of God's Holy Word that the messenger is right.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

As Linda 64 pointed out, your attacks are very unChristlike.

 

I agree the comment was uncalled for but I think SFIC had said it best already;

 

After reading the attacks on sfiC and myself, I can only say I will be praying for you, Alcott.

They persecuted the prophets way before you persecute me.

There is a wonderful verse in the New Testament to show total abstinence from alcohol is expected of the believer:

We abstain (are temperate) to win an incorruptible crown.

 

I kinda thin myself but at least we don't have to worry about keeping our hair out of our eyes.:laugh: :laugh:

You shouldn't drink out of a gallon fruit jar!!

Anyone looking for an excuse for drinking any kind of acholol is looking for trouble. The first one comes to mind is a broken home.

 

One thing I have found in this discussion.
The ones saying all alcohol is bad and must be totally avoided keep giving OT verses to say so. Using Jewish law to prove a Christian point.
The verses quoted from the NT do not say drinking is wrong. Only drunkenness, which stems from a lack of self control, is wrong.
Paul tells us all things are now legal for us, but not all things are useful. This is one of those things. Just because we CAN drink does not always mean we should.
1 Corinthians 6:12-20, 1 Corinthians 10:23-33
This seems to be a vain and useless argument. Christians are to avoid those
2 Timothy 2:14-18, 2 Timothy 3:1-9, Titus 3:1-8
I do have to say I am disheartened by the name calling, whether we agree or not, we are brothers and sisters in Christ. Hurting each other is not to be done.
As for the judging, we are NOT to judge each other, but a persons actions. This is a fine line and I know I cross it myself, beware of judging the person, not the action.
I am personally not subject to anyone elses judgement, only God's.
Romans 2:1-16, Romans 14:1-23, 1 Corinthians 4:1-6
And anyone who is dumb enough to go out after drinking a beer or anything else and do something on purpose to get pulled over, need not bother with alcohol, they will get a ticket for reckless driving whether they hit .08 or not.
Yes we are to be temperate.
Controlled, in control of our use, not just of alcohol, but of everything.
Temperate: Exercising moderation and self-restraint: learned to be temperate in eating and drinking. (ditionary.com)

 

If one has been careful to notice, I for one have not stated that it is necessarily sin for anyone to drink alcohol. It would depend upon the light one has been given. What I stated might be sin for me may not be sin for you. Just the same there is an element in this discussion that seems to be getting overlooked, and that is of influence upon others.

I have a friend I have known for years that has been a temperate drinker from all outward signs. I have never seen this man drunk, and have never heard any indication that he abused his wife or family due to his drinking. He has never to my knowledge ever received any citation for the use of alcohol. One might at first glance consider this man to be the ‘model drinker.’

He had a son that had just turned eighteen. He loved this boy with al his heart and was careful to spend time with him on every possible occasion to hunt, fish, or attend sporting events. When fishing, etc, he allowed his son to drink an occasional beer with him, and always kept beer in his refrigerator.

In his sons last year in HS, a friend of his sons was tragically killed in a car accident. His son spoke to his dad and got the use of their new SUV to attend the funeral of their friend. The young boy left and on the way, picked up another young friend to ride to the funeral together. His father had already gone to work that day, and un known to his father, he took some beer out of the refrigerator to drink on the way to the funeral with his friend, to help drown the sorrow of their mutual loss. Traveling down the Interstate on the way to the funeral they started to miss their exit, when the driver swerved to make sure he would not miss it, and in the process rolled his Dad’s new SUV and both young men lost their lives instantly.

Sure this could have happened without alcohol being involved. Just the same, both boys had a low alcohol count in their blood stream.

Let me ask the reader, what influence did his fathers ‘model drinking’ (if there is such a thing) have on this son and the other young man killed in this accident?

I believe that if anyone honestly considers the issue of alcohol from any perspective other than a selfish one, they will never allow such an easily abused substance such as alcohol touch their lips, and never allow such a substance to be found unattended in their homes.

That selfish sip of drinking even in moderation may be the impetus of a lifetime of sorrow and grief.

If my son goes out and consumes alcohol, and is killed in a tragic accident, I can lay my head on my pillow at night and know that I have done my best to train him in the way he should go, and I believe I could rest in the grace of God to comfort me in my grief. I wonder if my friend is resting in peace as he lays his head on his pillow? May God comfort his grieving heart and give those reading this post ears to hear.

 

It sure wouldn't be a bad idea, especially with the slipperty slope you're defending.

 

Proverbs 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Numbers 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

 

Look not upon the wine when it is fermented - If one refrains from even partaking of the fermented beverage, there is no possible way to fall into the drunkenness that is sure to follow.

And the sins of the father were visited upon that 18 year old son whom HP spoke of. The father was a moderate drinker and that moderate drinking brought about the death of his son.

Proverbs 14:12 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Man cannot justify drinking alcoholic beverage in the light of the scripture.