It's the "Emerging" concept, it's "missional" approach, his casual, five-o'clock-shadow appearance, his profanity and the latest hubbub over his loose and flippant manner in teaching on human sexuality.
There are only two possible explanations: 1) He's a narcissist who found his method of self-aggrandizement behind the pulpit, (the most likely answer, especially considering his testimony about his "call"); or 2) more mercifully He really thinks that appealing to the pop culture is a hallowed method of evangelism, which belies his lip-service to the Doctrines of Grace.
Mark Driscoll admits to "Free Will"
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Mar 27, 2009.
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Proof on this thread there is such a thing as modern day Pharisees...
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Revmitchell said: ↑As far as knowing the reformed view it is an impossibility.They remain elusive. usually a result of not liking the characterizations of others perceptions of their view. But to be sure reformed characterizations are the reliable ones.:rolleyes:
Anyway the purpose of this thread was not to debate about the reformed view but to understand what Mark said in light of his reformed theology. it almost sounded like he left it.Click to expand...Revmitchell said: ↑Is this common among the Reformed?Click to expand...
so yes is the answer to your initial post.
Deut. 29:29
perceptive will: God's revealed will for us to live by and look to for light on our paths so that we may carefully choose the right things so that we may stay in Spirit. So according to this will and man's point of view we have free will to choose. This includes love, obedience, and so forth.....
Decretive will: This is the will that holds God's sovereignty over all creation in some mysterious way. His choosing of the elect, his secrets in which he providentially brings all His will to pass without failure. We cannot see this will until it has already happened, and it is very dangerous to try to live by this will because it really isnt our business, although we can remain humble and prayerful knowing God has great control over all things.
So yes we have a choice and no we dont have a choice :smilewinkgrin: -
Aaron said: ↑It's the "Emerging" concept, it's "missional" approach, his casual, five-o'clock-shadow appearance, his profanity and the latest hubbub over his loose and flippant manner in teaching on human sexuality.
There are only two possible explanations: 1) He's a narcissist who found his method of self-aggrandizement behind the pulpit, (the most likely answer, especially considering his testimony about his "call"); or 2) more mercifully He really thinks that appealing to the pop culture is a hallowed method of evangelism, which belies his lip-service to the Doctrines of Grace.Click to expand... -
Aaron said: ↑It's the "Emerging" concept, it's "missional" approach, his casual, five-o'clock-shadow appearance, his profanity and the latest hubbub over his loose and flippant manner in teaching on human sexuality.
There are only two possible explanations: 1) He's a narcissist who found his method of self-aggrandizement behind the pulpit, (the most likely answer, especially considering his testimony about his "call"); or 2) more mercifully He really thinks that appealing to the pop culture is a hallowed method of evangelism, which belies his lip-service to the Doctrines of Grace.Click to expand...
I thought he was good on Nightline - gave the gospel and the truth about Jesus and salvation several times without being smug or preachy. Whatever faults he may have, I did not see them on the Nightline show. I was glad he was there to refute Deepak Chopra and Pearson to the extent he could. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite SupporterMarcia said: ↑Aaron, Driscoll now repudiates the Emerging church and teaches against it.Click to expand...
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Revmitchell said: ↑No he does not repudiate the Emerging Church. He has separated Himself from the Emergent Church and those he began with Brian McLaren etc.Click to expand...
I'm not wildly fond of Driscoll but he does preach the gospel, including hell. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite SupporterMarcia said: ↑I'm not wildly fond of Driscoll but he does preach the gospel, including hell.Click to expand...
He has some very good theology. His methodology is quite questionable at times. -
Rhetorician said: ↑Hello Dear Brother,
I am not sure you and I have talked before?
It is my priviledge to teach "Speech" on the college level and have for over a decade. I am always telling my students that "words have meaning" and "context dictates that meaning."Click to expand...
Rhetorician said: ↑When it comes to "free will," most Reform people would believe in "free will" if you let us define the terms.
1. We are "free" to choose on the horizontal level. That is we can choose whom to marry, what to become when we grow up, where to live, etc.Click to expand...
I do find it interesting that some Arminian pastors will insist that God arranges marriage, career, etc yet insist that man can come to God of his own free will.
Rhetorician said: ↑2. We do NOT mean by "free" that the person is "free" to choose God at his or her will. "We love him because (purpose clause), He first loved (in response to His first loving) us."
3. We believe that the so-called "free will" has been tainted and tinted even "died" in the Fall of Adam. Therefore, "dead men" (See Eph 2) cannot choose to come to God. They are dead. We call this deadness the doctrine of depravity. Some call this "total inability." If it is true that we are "dead in trespasses and sins" then we have no moral ability or compunction to come to God.Click to expand...
“Every proposed method of salvation that leaves the issue dependent on human volition is defective. It has always been found that men will not come to Christ for life. The Gospel is preached to every creature; but all, with one consent, ask to be excused. The will of man must be changed; and this change the will cannot itself effect. Divine grace must here interpose. Unless God works in the sinner to will and to do, salvation is impossible.”
Rhetorician said: ↑These are just a few responses, and I am sure on this section of the BB will cause a stir. I am not doing this for that purpose but to answer on some level your honest question.
sdg!:smilewinkgrin:
rdClick to expand... -
Revmitchell said: ↑I do not need to step back any more than I need his speech or his resume. Neither were relevant to the thread. It was extra info not pertinent. And I certainly do not need "context" explained to me.Click to expand...
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Revmitchell said: ↑He has some very good theology. His methodology is quite questionable at times.Click to expand...
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annsni said:Have you heard him teach . . .Click to expand...
I'd love to see evidence of your assertions.Click to expand...
Our disagreement isn't about Driscoll, it's about God, Christ and the Gospel. -
Aaron said: ↑My whole point. He honors God with his lips, but in works he denies Him. He is not Reformed.Click to expand...
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annsni said:Can you show proof? Not hearsay but facts?Click to expand...
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Aaron said: ↑Yes, I can.Click to expand...
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Aaron said: ↑Yes, I can.Click to expand...
Do you really think Jesus is teaching to dig in the unknown hearts of men when He said "beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." I think fruits that we judge are based on what people say more than how they appear... clearly out of the four people teaching on the video Driscoll was the last one I would call a false prophet based on what he taught. Yes good fruits are words teamed with attitude, but the greater, from our perspective, is what comes from the mouth. again unless you can show me otherwise that proves to me the teaching of Driscoll is no good..... -
I'm still looking for evidence of Driscoll's denying God in his actions.
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Rhetorician AdministratorAdministrator
Rev. Mitchell Response
Revmitchell said: ↑No we have not. I do not need your condescending resume or words have meaning speech. I have heard all the Reformed arguments. Until Driscoll spoke of free will and its relation to love and salvation.Click to expand...
I am truly sorry that my "condescending resume" and my "words have meaning speech" were so inflammatory to you personally. I was hoping that we could have a decent and intellectually engaging conversation. I was hoping that some of the other brethren could influence you to consider a different "POV" on the matter--but I guess not?!
Before all who are witnesses on this section of the BB; I offer my sincere and heart felt apology to you.
I hope to dialog with you again in the future on a different topic and under different circumstances.
I bid you "God Speed!" my brother! I am praying for you as I type this!:praying:
"Shalom Y'all!" -
annsni said: ↑I'm still looking for evidence of Driscoll's denying God in his actions.Click to expand...
The problem, as I stated, is you're either unwilling or unable to consider the evidence. If you don't know what the Emerging Church is, or the principles it espouses, then you need to educate yourself. I won't do your homework for you.
Even if I would, it would be an exercise in futility, especially considering your defense of Rick Warren lately.
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