Apparently OSAS does not survive Matt 18 and Matt 6 -
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.
[FONT="]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT="]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]
Matt 6
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
There is a long list of other texts that disprove OSAS in the same way - such as those we find in Ezek 18.
Matt 18 and Matt 6 Disprove OSAS
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Dec 6, 2013.
Page 14 of 14
-
-
1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
There is no spiritual Israel. Paul was a Christian. See Romans 1:1.
He was not an unsaved Jew. He was not an unsaved Gentile. He was a Christian. Those are the only categories that there are. -
How is it that we are "not supposed to notice" that I often confine my posts primarily to scripture - and you often confine yours to ad hominem comment after ad hominem false accusation "as if" that is the sort of Bible study that a few of your fellow Baptists have come to expect?
By contrast - for those who actually read Romans 2 and Romans 9 and 1 Peter 2 as stated below your hollow assertion that these texts do not exist or that they do not say what they say - falls flat.
-
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female:for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(KJV)
We are spiritually Abraham's seed.
Call it what you will, this passage calls you wrong.
Notice that 'Jew' is included in groups that lose their singular identity "in Christ". There are no divisions to those who :
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
By faith, come in Christ .
Are we physically no longer male and female? Check next time you shower. We are ...watch this...'Spiritually no longer male and female'.
'Spritual' is another name for 'positional', because our bodies dwell on a physical earth, and simultaneously we are 'seated in heavenly places', positionally. Spiritually.
The spirit dwells in Eternity, the flesh in Time. -
The Muslim that comes to Christ is no longer a Muslim. He is not a "Muslim-Christian." He gives up his Islam and becomes a Christian. So does the "Greek" meaning pagan or Gentile, and so does the Jew (meaning Jewish religion). Christians are not schizophrenics. They cannot hold two religions at once. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes unto the Father but by me." Either you believe that or you call Jesus a liar, fake and imposter. Which is it?
The Scripture you referenced is speaking of how all who come to Christ (Jew, Gentile, and even Muslim) after they become saved, are all one in Christ. There is no difference between any of us. We are one in Christ. There is no "spiritual Israel."
Check out Romans 9:1-3, and likewise Romans 10:1-3. Why does Paul, a saved Israelite pay for his "brethren" his "kinsmen in the flesh," the nation of Israel? Because they are not saved? The nation of Israel still existed at the time of Paul, and he lifted them up to the Lord in prayer. Likewise they still exist now. Things have not changed. -
-
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
We know no man after the flesh: rich man, poor man; Jew or Gentile; male or female; banker or pauper; fat or skinny; etc. We know no man after the flesh. It doesn't matter what your background is or was. Ethnicity, gender, past religion, caste, social status, are all in the past. We are all one in Christ.
Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature. All those old things (the old man) is passed away. All things are become new. We have a new life in Christ. All are equal; all are one in Christ.
The problem in the Corinthian church was divisiveness. Paul was addressing that problem. There was to be no divisions. They were one body united by one Person, the Lord. -
Israelites that are unbelievers, go to Hell. They are of their father, the Dévil. Israelites that believe, it is accounted unto them for righteousness, they become Abraham's Seed, spiritually.
Rom 10:12
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 11:24
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree:how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
See? They that believe , of physical Isr., must be "grafted in" to espiritual Isr. -
-
-
Here is the way that Paul put it elsewhere:
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
In Adam all die. All means all.
In Christ all will be made alive. Context dictates that all who believe in Christ will be made alive. The context is the resurrection. Adam is our federal head. The federal head of believers is Christ. We have nothing to do with Israel. It is Adam; the first Adam, and Christ; the second Adam. -
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Speak for yourself. -
Why not quote the verse in context?
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to promise.
The teaching is simply that we are one in Christ. He is using "Abraham seed" as a metaphor to teach of the faith of Abraham. In no way are we the physical seed of Abraham. That is not what the verse teaches. He, in the very same breath, and verse, says "heirs according to the promise.
What does that mean? To Abraham was given a promise; a promise that God would make him a blessing, and through him he would be a blessing to all nations. You have been blessed because of Abraham. You are heirs of the promise of Abraham. You are not his seed, per se. You, because of his faith and faithfulness, inherit his blessing.
Page 14 of 14