N. T. Wright on Predestination and Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021.

  1. Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,817
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No I haven't. Wright's literary corpus is huge. The book I have read which is still in my possession is What Saint Paul really said. It is this book that I consider to be unsound.
    Wright's understanding of the Person of the Lord Jesus is sound SFAIK. It is his understanding of Justification with which I take issue. Luther wrote that Justification is the doctrine on which the Church stands or falls.
     
  2. Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,817
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think this is a stretch. eklektos comes from the verb eklego, which means 'to pick out; or ;to choose.'
    ekklesia may be connected with the verb ekkaleo, which means 'to summon forth' or 'to call out.' ekklesia simply has the meaning of an assembly and so it is used hundreds of times in Classical Greek.. It is used three times in Acts 19 to describe the city council in Ephesus, and the law court in that city.

    'Many are called but few are chosen' Matthew 20:16.
     
  3. kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,640
    Likes Received:
    2,901
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ...according to the Bible, INDIVIDUALS (pronouns tell the story):

    29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
    30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8

    15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
    16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.
    18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.
    19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?
    20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Ro 9
     
  4. Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    For whatever reasons many would rather deny truth than submit to it. You could not write it clearer.
     
  5. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
  6. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    From the very beginning, Christians saw the scriptures to all be inspired and trustworthy!
     
  7. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    and THAT error is the very foundation he uses to state that Pauline Justification as Reformers held to was and is dead wrong!
     
  8. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    His big error is not in who Jesus is, but what the Gospel is!
     
  9. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul so clear to all but NT Wright, as Ge stated that Israel sought to be justified by the Law!
     
  10. JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,620
    Likes Received:
    3,592
    Faith:
    Baptist
    N.T. Wright is orthodox. That does not mean he is correct.

    And the OP is correct in a way (N.T. Wright was the "gold standard" of Pauline theology among the evangelicals and Reformed....until he wasn't...i.e., until he said that they, including himself, had made errors regarding how Paul viewed righteousness in relation to the Law).