Joined:
Jun 5, 2010
Messages:
33,469
Likes Received:
1,576
Faith:
Baptist
Agreed...but interestingly enough it’s almost here in the guise of states rights. Over 25 years ago, the socialist state of New Jersey tried to take my Cerebral palsy sister away from us and make her a ward of the state...under NJ state law they thought they could do it, however not under Pennsylvania law ( some other states also )....we would have just moved. In our country, we have freedom to run if necessary....apparently not in the UK.
It was nothing to do with the Government: the courts adjudicated a dispute between the parents, the hospital and the representatives of Alfie as to what was in Alfie's best interests. Theresa May and her Government had no say in it whatsoever, being subject to the Courts the same as everyone else. The reason the Courts decided that it wasn't in Alfie's best interests to transfer him to Italy was that (a) all that the Italian hospital was offering was not a cure but palliative care coupled with artificially keeping him alive (equivalent to performing CPR endlessly on someone who's flatlined) and (b) because even moving someone being ventilated from one part of a hospital to another would have inflicted unnecessary pain and probably have hastened the end, let alone moving him from one country to another!
Click to expand...
shouldnt that have been the decision of the parents, not the courts?
David Kent
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
Feb 5, 2017
Messages:
2,374
Likes Received:
312
Faith:
Baptist
Th doctors decide on the best treatment for the patient .
In this case the parents objected.
The medical staff then applied to the court.
The court had to decide.
Withdrawing life support is not killing the child.
Bro. Curtis
<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Joined:
Oct 25, 2001
Messages:
22,016
Likes Received:
487
Faith:
Baptist
In America they could go to another doctor. No court would prevent it.
Matt Black
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
Feb 25, 2003
Messages:
11,548
Likes Received:
193
Of course they do. It is a matter of fact; there is nothing to 'admit' as if it were some kind of 'guilty secret'
Matt Black
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
Feb 25, 2003
Messages:
11,548
Likes Received:
193
IF the parents are medically qualified, perhaps.
Joined:
Jun 5, 2010
Messages:
33,469
Likes Received:
1,576
Faith:
Baptist
So you think threatening to kill doctors and nurses is Ok? Or forcing staff and patients (other children, remember) to run the gauntlet of a baying mob, telling said patients that the doctors are going to kill them, is Ok? You don't have a problem with that?
Dr Ravi Jayaram Click to expand...
I’d have a problem with his practicing medicine in the United States
Bro. Curtis
<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Joined:
Oct 25, 2001
Messages:
22,016
Likes Received:
487
Faith:
Baptist
So if you have no medical training you should have no say in your child’s treatment ? Can’t get another opinion/ seek other treatment. Not unless you have (I’m sure state-sponsored) medical training.
Wow.
Joined:
Jun 5, 2010
Messages:
33,469
Likes Received:
1,576
Faith:
Baptist
Medically qualified, that’s a laugh. This kid was given a death sentence, so why not give the parents say where and when Allie died.
Joined:
Jun 5, 2010
Messages:
33,469
Likes Received:
1,576
Faith:
Baptist
Socialized medicine Curtis
Matt Black
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
Feb 25, 2003
Messages:
11,548
Likes Received:
193
Of course they had a say: they were a party to the court case for goodness sake! Haven't you read the judgements?
Bro. Curtis
<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Joined:
Oct 25, 2001
Messages:
22,016
Likes Received:
487
Faith:
Baptist
Remember, he said, even with the parents being trained, that “perhaps” the parents can decide treatment.
Matt Black
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
Feb 25, 2003
Messages:
11,548
Likes Received:
193
Earth Wind and Fire said:
↑
Medically qualified, that’s a laugh. This kid was given a death sentence, so why not give the parents say where and when Allie died.
Click to expand...
They did: they had several days in court. The condition gave him the death sentence not the doctors.
My sister is a consultant paediatrician and, frankly, I find people making political capital out of this tragic case by trading her profession to be disgusting.
Bro. Curtis
<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Joined:
Oct 25, 2001
Messages:
22,016
Likes Received:
487
Faith:
Baptist
And now he’s claiming the parents “did” have say in the treatment which is absolute hogwash. The parents were prevented from even taking him home.
Matt Black
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
Feb 25, 2003
Messages:
11,548
Likes Received:
193
Remember, he said, even with the parents being trained, that “perhaps” the parents can decide treatment.
Click to expand...
I didn't say "have no say", I said it shouldn't be their sole decision.
If the parents were the medical experts you imply then surely they could have treated Alfie themselves rather than take him to a hospital
Bro. Curtis
<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Joined:
Oct 25, 2001
Messages:
22,016
Likes Received:
487
Faith:
Baptist
They did: they had several days in court. The condition gave him the death sentence not the doctors.
My sister is a consultant paediatrician and, frankly, I find people making political capital out of this tragic case by trading her profession to be disgusting.
Click to expand...
Gee that’s too bad.
Some of us see this garbage coming here. Nothing wrong with discussing it and warning each other.
church mouse guy
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
May 23, 2002
Messages:
22,050
Likes Received:
1,857
Faith:
Baptist
That's right.
That's what I said earlier in the thread.
Once you check into the NHS, you are treated like government property.
You cannot even leave and you are threatened with arrest and felony conviction if you do.
The British doctors and judges have decided that they are the supreme medical authorities in the world--which contradicts the Cuban authorities, who say the same thing about the Cuban medical system, deemed the finest in the world by Michael Moore.
Joined:
Jun 5, 2010
Messages:
33,469
Likes Received:
1,576
Faith:
Baptist
They did: they had several days in court. The condition gave him the death sentence not the doctors.
My sister is a consultant paediatrician and, frankly, I find people making political capital out of this tragic case by trading her profession to be disgusting.
Click to expand...
So what are you saying, that the parents were held incompetent in making life and death decisions for their own child?
church mouse guy
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
May 23, 2002
Messages:
22,050
Likes Received:
1,857
Faith:
Baptist
Do you even read what you are posting?
That is just about what Americans have been saying about your socialized medicine for years.
Matt Black
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
Feb 25, 2003
Messages:
11,548
Likes Received:
193
So, what, are you saying they DIDN'T have a say in the proceedings.
Weird how they're a party to the court action
..
church mouse guy
Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Joined:
May 23, 2002
Messages:
22,050
Likes Received:
1,857
Faith:
Baptist
Socialized medicine owns people.