No I do not. I do not deny the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, I just simply do not believe the bible teaches they are seperated.
Obedience
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by ONENESS, Feb 21, 2005.
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DHK </font>[/QUOTE]DHK, this is a low blow! I didn't think that even you could stoop so low and be so cruel. What kind of a man are you anyway?
This baby is approximately 4 months old and you know if it was to die today that it would inherit the kingdom of heaven. Why do you want to torment this young father that way?
I know Brian knows better, but your terminolgy/opinion is very hurtful!
There are probably a lot, on this board, that agree, but are afraid to express their feelings, since you are a moderator!
MEE [/QUOTE]
MEE, thank you so much. But I was kind of curious to know what wicked lies your kids told as soon as they came out of the womb? LOL, what a misconception.
[ March 01, 2005, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: DHK ] -
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You are also right, we cannot prove anything to God. But our works are supposed to be a witness to those who are around us. Not that we have anything to prove to the world, but we do have an obligation to embrace the world, to stand out, to be light , and to be salt.. Our relationship with God should be evident by our works. And the world will see our works long before they see our heart. God looks on the inside, man looks on the outside.
Now that we know that it requires faith to abide, what does it really mean to abide? I think Paul summed it up the best when he said “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith (2 Tim 4:7).
We are in a race, and the bible tells us in Hebs 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
Lord bless
Brian -
I want my picture under my name like everyone else...how can i get it there?
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Sent you a pm.
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thanks
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Diane,
We should correct your post to reflect what should be done to get his picture into the scheme of things.
Admit the Trinity...
It is easy ... AND it is Biblical.
Tradition and ease of fit are not the qualifiers though. Biblical is. Christ is the image of, but He is not the Father. Col 1: 15-23 ... -
ONENESS,
We can not read the Bible and then define the words in that Bible any way we want to.
The Bible says the gospel is the death burial and ressurection of Christ.
You say "there is more to it than that" Sorry, you are wrong. Paul even declared that he was sent to preach the gospel and NOT to baptize, this proves that baptism is NOT part of the gospel.
1 Cor 1:17
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel
NIVClick to expand...
Heb 8:7-8
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people
NIVClick to expand...
Rom 3:10
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
NIVClick to expand...
Gal 3:2-5
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing-if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
NIVClick to expand...
I showed you already how that word is defined as changing one's mind. THe UPCI, however says on their website that:
Repentance is, first of all, a turning away from all sin.Click to expand...
Use your strongs and look up the word repent. What does it say?
We will really get no where if you want to manipulate the Words of God to suit your doctrine. Until we can agree that the words have the same definition, there is no use in arguing.
Are you going to converse based upon the meaning of the Words as they are used in the Bible or as they are used by the UPCI or whatever church you are associated with?
~Lorelei -
Posted by DHK
On the other hand if you call yourself a Christian, yes, you have to believe in the trinity. If you say you believe the Bible, yes, you must believe in the trinity. If you don't you put yourself outside the mainstream of Christianity and into the realm of a cult.Click to expand...
Mark 16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe, In my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues...
Have you ever spoke in tongues DHK? Have you ever prayed in the Holy Ghost? Is your movement casting out devils? Are any of the other signs following the baptist movement? If you are not speaking in tongues than your not a true believer according to JESUS.
The trinity teaches that there are three persons and yet one God.Click to expand...
You use Isa 43:11 to support the Trinity? The Trinity teaches that the First person in the Trinity is seperate from the second person in the Trinity.
...and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR
"Beside" in the Hebrew means 1) apart from, except, without, besides.
You can not seperate ONE GOD. THAT IS FALSE DOCTRINE.
Were the Jews so ignorant that they did not understand the language, and what Jesus was saying? No, they understood exactly what He was saying. He wasn't claiming to be one in purpose. He was claiming to be one in essence, part of the same triune Godhead. Therefore they took up stones to stone him with. Why? They say it themselves: "Because thou, being a man makest thyself God."Click to expand...
Jesus was asked a question by the scribes. They said, which is the first of all commandments? Jesus answered him and said " The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord". (Mark 12:29)
This is what they base they're whole existance on concerning God.
He was claiming to be one in essence, part of the same triune Godhead.Click to expand...
[quote"Because thou, being a man makest thyself God."[/quote]
They almost got it right. He was not man making himself God, He was a God who had made himself a man.
They were so close to the truth it's unbelievable. After Jesus told them what the first of all commandments was they told him "Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:(Mark 12:32-33). And after that statement from the scribe Jesus said "Thou are not far from the Kingdom of God".
You have got to know who Jesus is before you can inherit the Kingdom of God.
The Holy Spirit is God.Click to expand...
Jeus said in John 14:16 if you love him to keep his commandments and he would pray the Father to send you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever. Who is the other comforter? The Holy Ghost (John 14:26).
If you stop at John 14:16 you might would be able to think there is another person other than God up there, But Jesus gives us the explination if we keep reading.
John 14:18 Jesus said I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS, I WILL COME TO YOU.
There it is right there, he's not comeing back as the man Christ Jesus but as a the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost is none other than God in Spiritual essance.
The Greek word for "comfortless" is "orphanos". And that is where we derive the word orphan from. Jesus is not going to leave us fatherless. Jesus is our Father too.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
God can't make that any plainer. Jesus is our Father, Jesus is the Son, and Jesus is the Holy Ghost. Three manifestations of the One True God, Not three seperate persons.
1 Timothy 3:16 makes it very clear that God (The Father) was manifest in the Flesh.
So, yes; If you call yourself a Christian, and you say you believe the Bible you must believe in the trinity. Otherwise you can believe anything you want.Click to expand...
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.Click to expand...
Is Paul and his conscience seperate persons? NO.
Neither are The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are seperate persons.
Well, I'll finish responding later, I get to go to church now.
God bless -
"On the other hand if you call yourself a Christian, yes, you have to believe in the trinity."
Yes, by definition.
"If you say you believe the Bible, yes, you must believe in the trinity."
Doesn't logically follow. "Trinity" is a logical construct. -
Originally posted by billwald:
"On the other hand if you call yourself a Christian, yes, you have to believe in the trinity."
Yes, by definition.
"If you say you believe the Bible, yes, you must believe in the trinity."
Doesn't logically follow. "Trinity" is a logical construct.Click to expand...
If you call yourself a Christian then it is logical to say that you believe in the Bible for the Bible is the foundation of a Christian's belief.
If you say that you believe in the Bible, then you must believe in the deity of Christ,
If you say that you believe in the Bible, then you must believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ.
If you say that you believe in the Bible, then you must believe that the Bible is God's Word.
If you say that you believe in the Bible then you must believe in the trinity.
These are some of the foundational truths that the Bible teaches. If you say that you believe in the Bible, you will believe in these truths that the Bible teaches. If you don't believe in these truths, it is quite evident that you don't believe in the Bible.
DHK -
Laugh?? Are you going to mock God's Holy Word because you don't understand it or don't believe it. That is the cruel thing here, not my words. I am only the messenger. What does Psalm 58:3 say: "They go astray as soon as they be born speaking lies." Do you have a problem with that? Then take it up with God, not me.Click to expand...
That is the cruel thing here, not my words. I am only the messenger.Click to expand...
Those words are God's words, not mine. He said it, not me. If you refuse to believe God in this matter, then who will you believe?Click to expand...
"They go astray as soon as they be born speaking lies." Do you have a problem with that?Click to expand...
Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
--But wait! You dismissed this verse too, didn't you?Click to expand...
If the doctrine that Mary was immaculately conceived without sin is such heresy, then how much more is your son being conceived without sin heresy?Click to expand...
Ok define to me what a sinner is.
Yes it does. To say that it is baptism violates the precepts taught in the rest of the Bible, contrary to what you just stated. One poster already gave you a viable alternative to what the water could mean. There is yet another interpretation. But it certainly does not mean baptism. Christ does not contradict himself, neither the Bible.Click to expand...
It does represent baptism and you can't prove otherwise.
The rest of the Bible??
You mean verses like:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
"If thou shalt confess with thy mouth and believe in thy heart that Jesus Christ is Lord thou shalt be saved."
"Call upon the name of the Lord and thou shalt be saved"
You mean verses like that.
Do you mean where, Jesus said unto him, "I am the way the truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me."Click to expand...
I wonder why he didn't say, "but by baptism," or "but by tongues" or "but by the UP church," or "but by the Oneness Pentecostals," etc.Click to expand...
Tell me; Did John the Baptist baptize on the basis of repentance, or in order that one would receive repentance?
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
The word "unto" here is the same word "for" in Acts 2:38, the Greek word "eis." As John baptized on the basis of their repentance, so Peter baptized on the basis of (or because of) their remission of sins. The baptism did not cause them to have remission of sins. The baptism was because they already had remission of sins.Click to expand...
I would also win b/c Paul was told to "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:15)
I would win b/c Johns desciples were told to be rebaptized in the Name of Jesus. (Acts 19:1-5)
I would win b/c Jesus said that we have to be born of the water and the spirit. (John 3:5)
I would win b/c Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized in the Name of the Lord.
I would win b/c the bible says, The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Check the Bible on what it says about repentanceClick to expand...
Repentance and faith go hand in hand. Neither one is a work. Repentance is a change of heart (mind) from one's sinful way of life, unto God.Click to expand...
So! Get saved! That is what is required. There are no good works in salvation. It is a free gift of God, that cannot be worked for (Eph.2:8,9)Click to expand...
But sadly you don't put your faith in Christ alone. You don't even believe in the doctrine of justification by faith. You deny it. You believe that baptism saves. You believe a religon saves and not Christ, and that my friend is sad.
DHKClick to expand...
Christ does save, but if you don't obey what he says he can't save you.
God Bless -
Lorelie, Its really late and I've got to get in bed, so i will post some replys tommorrow.
Hey listen you were on my heart the other day and I started praying for you.
I was not praying for God to make you believe what I believe so dont think of it like that.
I was just praying for you in General to help you and your family in everyday life. Just asking him to give you strength and to bless your heart.
God bless, talk to you tommorrow. -
Brian (oneness) writes:
""You are also right, we cannot prove anything to God. But our works are supposed to be a witness to those who are around us. Not that we have anything to prove to the world, but we do have an obligation to embrace the world, to stand out, to be light , and to be salt.. Our relationship with God should be evident by our works. And the world will see our works long before they see our heart. God looks on the inside, man looks on the outside.""
Hey Hey, we do agree on something. I could not have stated this better myself. Also, thank you for the kind words. You have always posted to me with charity. You and DHK get going at eachother a little rough but to me you have been very kind. "Works" have always been to show God's love and greatness to others. In seeing our works they will give praise to God and give Him their hearts. That is the hope anyway. Brian, the point I want to make is there will be those moments in life when the world beats us up some and our works fade, change, even lay dorment(sp?) for a season, but the heart that God sees is still unchanged. God may get our attention in some way because of what we are doing, but He still sees that same heart as when we were saved. God saw David's heart through murder and adultery, how much easier to see our hearts in a season of furstration, doubt, or pain, when our "lights" dim some. Praise God that He does not throw us to the wolves at those times but He will do things to draw us back to Himself. He knows exactly what to do and what we will do. The works change but the heart remains and that is a huge reason I believe in OSAS. Also, since even you can't say how much obedience is enough to keep us saved I will tell you. 100% is the only way to get saved and stay saved. Now God knowing that we were uncapable of that obedience sent His Son to be the obedience for us. I bet you knew where I was going with that. Works and obedience to God are great but not in the equation of saved or keeping salvation. That said, Scripture which you think may say otherwise must be read in a context of that basic truth. Give me a verse you think supports works and obedience being needed to maintain salvation and I will show you what I mean. Take care, Have a great day!
In Christ,
Brian -
Oneness,
Please tell me your view on the virgin birth of Christ. Why was it necessary for Christ to be born of a virgin?
DHK -
Well I'm going to through back in here.....
Since we are on to discussing the Trinity here, Oneness, how do you explain Matt 3:16-17?
This is one of the clearest examples of the Trinity there is. So, Jesus was the one being baptized, The Holy Spirit decended, and then there was the Voice from heaven. The Voice declares that Jesus is His Son.
Was Jesus talking to himself? Or did He have an out of the body experience where somehow he slipped out of his body and went up a ways so He could then decend back upon himself as a dove?
Lets go on to chapter 4. Who led Jesus out into the desert? Did he lead himself? -
Oneness,
Manageriekeeper had a goood question. It was:Since we are on to discussing the Trinity here, Oneness, how do you explain Matt 3:16-17?
This is one of the clearest examples of the Trinity there is. So, Jesus was the one being baptized, The Holy Spirit decended, and then there was the Voice from heaven. The Voice declares that Jesus is His Son.
Was Jesus talking to himself? Or did He have an out of the body experience where somehow he slipped out of his body and went up a ways so He could then decend back upon himself as a dove?
Lets go on to chapter 4. Who led Jesus out into the desert? Did he lead himself?
I saw that you had not anwered yet and I was wondering why??
Peace
Tam -
Originally posted by tamborine lady:
Oneness,
Manageriekeeper had a goood question. It was:Since we are on to discussing the Trinity here, Oneness, how do you explain Matt 3:16-17?
This is one of the clearest examples of the Trinity there is. So, Jesus was the one being baptized, The Holy Spirit decended, and then there was the Voice from heaven. The Voice declares that Jesus is His Son.
Was Jesus talking to himself? Or did He have an out of the body experience where somehow he slipped out of his body and went up a ways so He could then decend back upon himself as a dove?
Lets go on to chapter 4. Who led Jesus out into the desert? Did he lead himself?
I saw that you had not anwered yet and I was wondering why??
Peace
TamClick to expand...
MEE
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