This was originally my thought.
I do not expect a pastor's wife whould do more or be more then any other woman in church. But that a christian and member she should do something in church. Unless we don't expect christians to serve God.
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pastors wives
- Thread starter donnA
- Start date
I do not expect a pastor's wife whould do more or be more then any other woman in church. But that a christian and member she should do something in church. Unless we don't expect christians to serve God.
he's seen it, he knows all about it.
There may be a multitude of reasons for this. She may not want to be a pastor's wife. Her husband may be ignoring her in favor of the success syndrome and climbing a ladder. She may have a medical problem that she does not know about. She may not like being there and her husband talked her into it causing her to resent him and anything he is associated with.
In a church I pastored there was a deacon who had an altercation with a youth and the deacons would not suppoort me in confronting him so I did it by myself. One deacon in fact lied to me about the situation. So you never know what is behind the situation and the refusal to confront.
Is this the senior pastor? Then I'd speak to him, let him know that it is NOT appropriate for a Christian woman to act that way - and especially the wife of a pastor. If he does not listen, I'd then go to the deacon board and discuss it with them. Now, there's a chance that nothing will change in which case you'd need to decide if you will 1) leave the church or 2) stay and put up with it. I honestly would not be able to stay in a church where the pastor's wife is not doing her job as a woman in the church and the pastor cannot control (or will not control) his own family.
I completely agree. If not addressed and corrected, her behavior will harm the church's testimony and cause damage to other believers. It's unhealthy for the church, and it's unhealthy to let her continue to act this way. Sin in the church should be confronted by those in leadership. Let all things be done decently and in order. Obviously, something is out of order here.
The only pastor, deacons know also, problems are never confronted it seems.
I think your right though
it certainly has
It is, and it's only the first symptom.
believe me, it isn't.
thanks for your very well put together reply and kind tone. :thumbs:
Maybe this is where we disagree. My wife and I are one family but two individuals. She has her own life, goals, and career. While some of our goal align because of our family, she is an autonomous person.
Well I appreciate your adding this verse to the discussion. It is, imho, a very good text to bring.
One thing I notice is that Paul goes out of his way to mention the Pastor's wife but only limits her responsibilities to a respectable personal presentation that reflects trustworthiness. If Paul had desired for them to equipped to do anything else he would have mentioned it I imagine. Paul doesn't seem very remiss in stating how it should be.
Yeah but I think you're adding to this text a bit. This is a list of things is specifically for aged widows. While we can say there is an expectation that all women live as this there is not a rule.
It is interesting that if we grant the widows list above that all the activities listed above only two are exterior and the others are pretty open ended. I'm not a fan of a programatic model of churching people (i.e. moving from one program to the next) but is it realistic to ask the Pastor's wife to be at choir, teach Sunday School, lead a small group, go witnessing/visiting, lead a women's Bible study, teach VBS, etc etc etc when she has her own life and responsibilities? Just curious.
I don't see the OT link. It is a supreme hermeneutical stretch to link a man's leadership to his wife being held responsible for that leadership imho. Also with the texts above the wife's role is limited to her character and a few outward actions of hospitality. I'm not certain that she is biblically responsible for any roles or responsibilities beyond what is natural for a regular Christian.
Well there is wisdom in having older women teaching the younger women. There is mentoring thing there. Regardless if it is socially awkward (I don't think you're suggesting otherwise btw) we should provide those oppportunities.
I suppose we'll end up agreeing to disagree. Thanks for the kind and well thought out reply.:thumbs:
Maybe this is where we disagree. My wife and I are one family but two individuals. She has her own life, goals, and career. While some of our goal align because of our family, she is an autonomous person.
Thinkingstuff said:
Well I appreciate your adding this verse to the discussion. It is, imho, a very good text to bring.
One thing I notice is that Paul goes out of his way to mention the Pastor's wife but only limits her responsibilities to a respectable personal presentation that reflects trustworthiness. If Paul had desired for them to equipped to do anything else he would have mentioned it I imagine. Paul doesn't seem very remiss in stating how it should be.
Thinkingstuff said:
Yeah but I think you're adding to this text a bit. This is a list of things is specifically for aged widows. While we can say there is an expectation that all women live as this there is not a rule.
Thinkingstuff said:
It is interesting that if we grant the widows list above that all the activities listed above only two are exterior and the others are pretty open ended. I'm not a fan of a programatic model of churching people (i.e. moving from one program to the next) but is it realistic to ask the Pastor's wife to be at choir, teach Sunday School, lead a small group, go witnessing/visiting, lead a women's Bible study, teach VBS, etc etc etc when she has her own life and responsibilities? Just curious.
Thinkingstuff said:
I don't see the OT link. It is a supreme hermeneutical stretch to link a man's leadership to his wife being held responsible for that leadership imho. Also with the texts above the wife's role is limited to her character and a few outward actions of hospitality. I'm not certain that she is biblically responsible for any roles or responsibilities beyond what is natural for a regular Christian.
Thinkingstuff said:
Well there is wisdom in having older women teaching the younger women. There is mentoring thing there. Regardless if it is socially awkward (I don't think you're suggesting otherwise btw) we should provide those oppportunities.
I suppose we'll end up agreeing to disagree. Thanks for the kind and well thought out reply.:thumbs:
You are absolutely correct. Scripture does not bear out nonsense that the man and wife should live separate lives. Such craziness certainly is not cleaving.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
But, what should the roll of a pastor's wife be in a church?
I think the role of the pastor's wife is to be the pastor's wife. Those are mighty big shoes to fill.
What is or should be expected of her?
Nothing in the church except to be his wife and do it lovingly. She should participate as the Lord leads, though.
What should be her limits, or off limits to her?
Whatever the Lord limits.
Should she serve, sit on the sidelines, attend regularly, be a part of a sunday school class, teach, what?
Yeah.
I think the role of the pastor's wife is to be the pastor's wife. Those are mighty big shoes to fill.
What is or should be expected of her?
Nothing in the church except to be his wife and do it lovingly. She should participate as the Lord leads, though.
What should be her limits, or off limits to her?
Whatever the Lord limits.
Should she serve, sit on the sidelines, attend regularly, be a part of a sunday school class, teach, what?
Yeah.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Possibly. However, I don't think its unprecedented. Like I said I don't mind people disagreeing with this but its my perspective. I also think that if more people had this persepective with regard to the church we would have less of certain issues. Disassociation of the church leadership and the congregants. Gossip. Envy (often I see certain women at church who are eyeing up the pastor's wife complaining about how much jewelry she's wearing or how nice her clothes are Etc. Its nonsence but I see it. Wives not involved in their pastors church also seem to have this affect on the members which I've heard reflected this way "See how she doesn't speak to anybody? Does she think she's better than anyone else?" or "See how she doesn't do anything or even show up at some of the services? Is she just using the Pastors money for herself?" Or " The pastors wife isn't doing anything! Is she even saved?" etc. Now these are actual quotes from people I've known at some of the churches I attended. It seems to me its important that the Pastors wife's role is more than run of the mill.
First, I am not a pastor. I am, however, an ordained (but currently inactive) deacon. I have been on two pastor search committees, and in both of these situations, this very topic came up. We came up with the following both times.
1. A pastor's wife is a vital part of the pastor's life and ministry, as family support for the pastor. This should NEVER be established by the church members, but has a significant effect on the ministry of the pastor. The church should NEVER require any specific role in ministry to be accomplished by the pastor's wife.
2. Should the pastor's wife be gifted by God in some area, the church should encourage her to serve in that area, just as they should for ANY member.
As far as "limits" to be set, nothing of the sort was discussed by us.
One former pastor's wife was a gifted pianist. As such we encouraged her to play the piano in our services, but never required her to do so. Another pastor's wife ( my current one, BTW) is gifted in working with grade-school children. As such, we encourage her to work with them, but NEVER require her to do so. (She currently teaches Third Graders! PTL!) Still another pastor's wife had a great soprano voice, and we encouraged her to sing in the choir (which she often did), without requiring her to do so.
As to Donna's more specific question about a pastor's wife who seems (to me) to be mean and/or obnoxious, may I suggest trying to befriend her, show her your unconditional love, find out how YOU can help her, and try to reconcile her to both God and any people she has offended. We are to be ambassadors for Christ, striving to help reconcile people to God. I still think pastor's wives are sinful humans, and need that reconciliation just as much as I do. I will be praying for your efforts, Donna!
Bill :godisgood:
1. A pastor's wife is a vital part of the pastor's life and ministry, as family support for the pastor. This should NEVER be established by the church members, but has a significant effect on the ministry of the pastor. The church should NEVER require any specific role in ministry to be accomplished by the pastor's wife.
2. Should the pastor's wife be gifted by God in some area, the church should encourage her to serve in that area, just as they should for ANY member.
As far as "limits" to be set, nothing of the sort was discussed by us.
One former pastor's wife was a gifted pianist. As such we encouraged her to play the piano in our services, but never required her to do so. Another pastor's wife ( my current one, BTW) is gifted in working with grade-school children. As such, we encourage her to work with them, but NEVER require her to do so. (She currently teaches Third Graders! PTL!) Still another pastor's wife had a great soprano voice, and we encouraged her to sing in the choir (which she often did), without requiring her to do so.
As to Donna's more specific question about a pastor's wife who seems (to me) to be mean and/or obnoxious, may I suggest trying to befriend her, show her your unconditional love, find out how YOU can help her, and try to reconcile her to both God and any people she has offended. We are to be ambassadors for Christ, striving to help reconcile people to God. I still think pastor's wives are sinful humans, and need that reconciliation just as much as I do. I will be praying for your efforts, Donna!
Bill :godisgood:
SaggyWoman
Active Member
I am thinking of all the pastor wives I have known personally:
kind spirited and very sensitive.
abused by pastor husband and later divorced.
Leader in church
teacher
drug addict
quiet leader
behind the scenes
whatever gifted in.
Everyone is so different.
kind spirited and very sensitive.
abused by pastor husband and later divorced.
Leader in church
teacher
drug addict
quiet leader
behind the scenes
whatever gifted in.
Everyone is so different.
I had opportunity to speak with one of her victims,a very dear woman, whose had some really hard and trying times with a lot of pain and confusion, who had stuck with God through it all, I did not broach the subject, they offered it to me, believe me, it is much worse then I could have imagined. What can I possibly say to someone whose been done like she was. Which of course I can't tell you since it was done to her, not me.
Possibly. However, I don't think its unprecedented. Like I said I don't mind people disagreeing with this but its my perspective. I also think that if more people had this persepective with regard to the church we would have less of certain issues. Disassociation of the church leadership and the congregants. Gossip. Envy (often I see certain women at church who are eyeing up the pastor's wife complaining about how much jewelry she's wearing or how nice her clothes are Etc. Its nonsence but I see it. Wives not involved in their pastors church also seem to have this affect on the members which I've heard reflected this way "See how she doesn't speak to anybody? Does she think she's better than anyone else?" or "See how she doesn't do anything or even show up at some of the services? Is she just using the Pastors money for herself?" Or " The pastors wife isn't doing anything! Is she even saved?" etc. Now these are actual quotes from people I've known at some of the churches I attended. It seems to me its important that the Pastors wife's role is more than run of the mill.
Perhaps these pastor's wives have been burned by former church members to the point of her withdrawing. She doesn't get involved because everytime in the past that she has gotten involved she was criticized. People tried to use her to make points or to gain power in the church. People have said ugly things about her husband and her children. And, while she is forgiving she none the less does not trust allowing herself to be open to church members anymore. She seeks friendship from Christians who are not in her husband's church. They don't treat her differently. They don't try to use her. They don't fawn over her. They don't place unreasonable expectations on her. She wants to love unconditionally and to be love unconditionally and many times she can't find that in her husband's church.
Perhaps these pastor's wives have been burned by former church members to the point of her withdrawing. She doesn't get involved because everytime in the past that she has gotten involved she was criticized. People tried to use her to make points or to gain power in the church. People have said ugly things about her husband and her children. And, while she is forgiving she none the less does not trust allowing herself to be open to church members anymore. She seeks friendship from Christians who are not in her husband's church. They don't treat her differently. They don't try to use her. They don't fawn over her. They don't place unreasonable expectations on her. She wants to love unconditionally and to be love unconditionally and many times she can't find that in her husband's church.
It may seem unfair, but the pastor's family is, by the very qualifications of the pastor, put on a pedestal for all to see, and must live up to a higher expectation than the rest.
1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
--He must be found blameless.
That word encompasses a lot. It means that his wife and children must act in a manner as not to bring blame or shame upon his ministry. It is not only the pastor himself that must avoid scandal, but it extends to his family, those living under his roof. If they cause scandal then the pastor is not blameless, and is disqualified from the ministry.
1 Timothy 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
--His wife must be in submission to him. The Bible does not only speak of pastoral leadership and pastoral authority, but leadership and authority in the home. If the wife fails to submit the Biblical authority that God has placed in the home then she is rebelling, not only against her husband, but against God. The children (especially teens) can also disqualify a pastor by being in rebellion against their father. The Bible is clear. He must be one that rules his own house or he disqualifies himself from the ministry.
He must have his children in subjection.
1 Timothy 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
--The reason is given here. If he can't even rule his own house, then how can he possibly rule the church of God? The answer is obvious.
The family is a sacred institution ordained of God. The Word of God likens it to the local church for which he died. In Ephesians chapter 5 he speaks about husbands loving their wives, and wives being in submission to their husbands. He then makes this statement.
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
--The family is put in contrast to the church, the church that Christ loved and died for. It ought not to be a bickering and unloving church, and thus the same goes for the family.
Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
--The parallels are extended. Is this an apt illustration of our families?
Since salvation are we going through a process of sanctification and holiness, that someday, when the resurrection occurs we will be ready to meet our Lord. Of course we ought to be ready now. But our lives ought to be in a constant process of sanctification; our homes without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. Perhaps that is what Paul had in mind when he used the word "blameless."
1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
--He must be found blameless.
That word encompasses a lot. It means that his wife and children must act in a manner as not to bring blame or shame upon his ministry. It is not only the pastor himself that must avoid scandal, but it extends to his family, those living under his roof. If they cause scandal then the pastor is not blameless, and is disqualified from the ministry.
1 Timothy 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
--His wife must be in submission to him. The Bible does not only speak of pastoral leadership and pastoral authority, but leadership and authority in the home. If the wife fails to submit the Biblical authority that God has placed in the home then she is rebelling, not only against her husband, but against God. The children (especially teens) can also disqualify a pastor by being in rebellion against their father. The Bible is clear. He must be one that rules his own house or he disqualifies himself from the ministry.
He must have his children in subjection.
1 Timothy 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
--The reason is given here. If he can't even rule his own house, then how can he possibly rule the church of God? The answer is obvious.
The family is a sacred institution ordained of God. The Word of God likens it to the local church for which he died. In Ephesians chapter 5 he speaks about husbands loving their wives, and wives being in submission to their husbands. He then makes this statement.
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
--The family is put in contrast to the church, the church that Christ loved and died for. It ought not to be a bickering and unloving church, and thus the same goes for the family.
Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
--The parallels are extended. Is this an apt illustration of our families?
Since salvation are we going through a process of sanctification and holiness, that someday, when the resurrection occurs we will be ready to meet our Lord. Of course we ought to be ready now. But our lives ought to be in a constant process of sanctification; our homes without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. Perhaps that is what Paul had in mind when he used the word "blameless."
That is the devil's work. It is in his nature to destroy the work of God.