Spiritual Interpretation....pt3

You missed the point again. Simply because a word may be translated in a certain way does not mean the translator advocates always translating it that way. (Doing so is called translating by concordance.) I was only suggesting "race" for that one particular rendering, not for every time it occurs. As you yourself have said, context is the key.

 

Oh, for crying out loud. How in the world do you get that out of me saying that genea in Matt. 24:34 can be translated "race"? Again I have to say, you guys simply don't have the answers. You're making things up.

And leave my students out of this. That's a low blow and none of your business. My students are wonderful students of the Word. Virtually all of them are doing our church's "Hour with God." Do you do a hour day of personal devotions? (Don't answer, that was rhetorical, and I don't really care if you do or don't. I'm defending my students.)

 

The question was (in the context of the Olivet Discourse):

Are there ANY translations that actually render 'genea' as 'age' or 'era' or 'race'?

Englishman's Concordance
Strong's Greek: 1074. γενεά (genea) — 43 Occurrences
Matthew 1:17 N-NFP
GRK: οὖν αἱ γενεαὶ ἀπὸ Ἀβραὰμ
NAS: all the generations from Abraham
KJV: So all the generations from Abraham
INT: Therefore the generations from Abraham

Matthew 1:17 N-NFP
GRK: ἕως Δαυὶδ γενεαὶ δεκατέσσαρες καὶ
NAS: are fourteen generations; from David
KJV: [are] fourteen generations; and
INT: to David [were] generations fourteen and

Matthew 1:17 N-NFP
GRK: μετοικεσίας Βαβυλῶνος γενεαὶ δεκατέσσαρες καὶ
NAS: fourteen generations; and from the deportation
KJV: [are] fourteen generations; and
INT: deportation to Babylon generations fourteen and

Matthew 1:17 N-NFP
GRK: τοῦ χριστοῦ γενεαὶ δεκατέσσαρες
NAS: to the Messiah, fourteen generations.
KJV: Christ [are] fourteen generations.
INT: the Christ generations fourteen

Matthew 11:16 N-AFS
GRK: ὁμοιώσω τὴν γενεὰν ταύτην ὁμοία
NAS: this generation? It is like
KJV: this generation? It is
INT: will I liken the generation this like

Matthew 12:39 N-NFS
GRK: εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Γενεὰ πονηρὰ καὶ
NAS: and adulterous generation craves
KJV: adulterous generation seeketh after
INT: he said to them A generation evil and

Matthew 12:41 N-GFS
GRK: μετὰ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ
NAS: up with this generation at the judgment,
KJV: this generation, and
INT: with the generation this and

Matthew 12:42 N-GFS
GRK: μετὰ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ
NAS: up with this generation at the judgment
KJV: this generation, and
INT: with the generation this and

Matthew 12:45 N-DFS
GRK: καὶ τῇ γενεᾷ ταύτῃ τῇ
NAS: be with this evil generation.
KJV: unto this wicked generation.
INT: also to generation this the

Matthew 16:4 N-NFS
GRK: Γενεὰ πονηρὰ καὶ
NAS: and adulterous generation seeks after
KJV: adulterous generation seeketh after
INT: A generation evil and

Matthew 17:17 N-VFS
GRK: εἶπεν Ὦ γενεὰ ἄπιστος καὶ
NAS: and perverted generation, how
KJV: perverse generation, how long
INT: said O generation unbelieving and

Matthew 23:36 N-AFS
GRK: ἐπὶ τὴν γενεὰν ταύτην
NAS: will come upon this generation.
KJV: upon this generation.
INT: upon the generation this

Matthew 24:34 N-NFS
GRK: παρέλθῃ ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ἕως
NAS: to you, this generation will not pass away
KJV: This generation shall not
INT: will have passed away the generation this until

 

Mark 8:12 N-NFS
GRK: Τί ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ζητεῖ
NAS: does this generation seek
KJV: this generation seek after
INT: Why the generation this seeks

Mark 8:12 N-DFS
GRK: δοθήσεται τῇ γενεᾷ ταύτῃ σημεῖον
NAS: will be given to this generation.
KJV: be given unto this generation.
INT: There will be given to the generation this a sign

Mark 8:38 N-DFS
GRK: ἐν τῇ γενεᾷ ταύτῃ τῇ
NAS: and sinful generation, the Son
KJV: and sinful generation; of him also
INT: in the generation this

Mark 9:19 N-VFS
GRK: λέγει Ὦ γενεὰ ἄπιστος ἕως
NAS: O unbelieving generation, how long
KJV: faithless generation, how long
INT: says O generation unbelieving until

Mark 13:30 N-NFS
GRK: παρέλθῃ ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη μέχρις
NAS: to you, this generation will not pass away
KJV: that this generation shall not
INT: will have passed away the generation this until

 

Luke 1:48 N-NFP
GRK: πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί
NAS: on all generations will count me blessed.
KJV: all generations shall call
INT: all the generations

Luke 1:50 N-AFP
GRK: αὐτοῦ εἰς γενεὰς καὶ γενεάς
NAS: AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER
KJV: him from generation to generation.
INT: of him [is] to generations and generations

Luke 1:50 N-AFP
GRK: γενεὰς καὶ γενεάς τοῖς φοβουμένοις
NAS: AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE
KJV: from generation to generation.
INT: generations and generations to those fearing

Luke 7:31 N-GFS
GRK: ἀνθρώπους τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ
NAS: of this generation, and what
KJV: of this generation? and
INT: men the generation of this and

Luke 9:41 N-VFS
GRK: εἶπεν Ὦ γενεὰ ἄπιστος καὶ
NAS: and perverted generation, how long
KJV: and perverse generation, how long
INT: said O generation unbelieving and

Luke 11:29 N-NFS
GRK: λέγειν Ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη γενεὰ
NAS: This generation is a wicked
KJV: an evil generation: they seek
INT: to say the generation this generation

Luke 11:29 N-NFS
GRK: γενεὰ αὕτη γενεὰ πονηρά ἐστιν
NAS: is a wicked generation; it seeks
INT: generation this generation an evil is

Luke 11:30 N-DFS
GRK: ἀνθρώπου τῇ γενεᾷ ταύτῃ
NAS: of Man be to this generation.
KJV: be to this generation.
INT: of man to the generation this

Luke 11:31 N-GFS
GRK: ἀνδρῶν τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ
NAS: of this generation at the judgment
KJV: of this generation, and
INT: men the generation of this and

Luke 11:32 N-GFS
GRK: μετὰ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ
NAS: up with this generation at the judgment
KJV: this generation, and
INT: with the generation this and

Luke 11:50 N-GFS
GRK: ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης
NAS: against this generation,
KJV: of this generation;
INT: of the generation this

Luke 11:51 N-GFS
GRK: ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης
NAS: against this generation.'
KJV: of this generation.
INT: of the generation this

Luke 16:8 N-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν γενεὰν τὴν ἑαυτῶν
NAS: to their own kind than
KJV: in their generation wiser than
INT: in the generation of themselves

Luke 17:25 N-GFS
GRK: ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης
NAS: and be rejected by this generation.
KJV: of this generation.
INT: by the generation this

Luke 21:32 N-NFS
GRK: παρέλθῃ ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ἕως
NAS: to you, this generation will not pass away
KJV: This generation shall not
INT: will have passed away the generation this until

 

Acts 2:40 N-GFS
GRK: ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς τῆς σκολιᾶς
NAS: from this perverse generation!
KJV: this untoward generation.
INT: from the generation perverse

Acts 8:33 N-AFS
GRK: ἤρθη τὴν γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίς
NAS: WILL RELATE HIS GENERATION? FOR HIS LIFE
KJV: shall declare his generation? for his
INT: was taken away [and] the generation of him who

Acts 13:36 N-DFS
GRK: γὰρ ἰδίᾳ γενεᾷ ὑπηρετήσας τῇ
NAS: in his own generation, fell asleep,
KJV: his own generation by the will
INT: for to his own generation having ministered by the

Acts 14:16 N-DFP
GRK: ταῖς παρῳχημέναις γενεαῖς εἴασεν πάντα
NAS: In the generations gone
KJV: Who in times past suffered
INT: the past generations allowed all

Acts 15:21 N-GFP
GRK: γὰρ ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίων κατὰ
NAS: from ancient generations has
KJV: of old time hath in every
INT: indeed from generations of old in every
Ephesians 3:5 N-DFP
GRK: ὃ ἑτέραις γενεαῖς οὐκ ἐγνωρίσθη
NAS: in other generations was not made known
KJV: in other ages was not
INT: which in other generations not was made known

Ephesians 3:21 N-AFP
GRK: πάσας τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος
NAS: to all generations forever
KJV: all ages, world
INT: all the generations of the age

Philippians 2:15 N-GFS
GRK: ἄμωμα μέσον γενεᾶς σκολιᾶς καὶ
NAS: and perverse generation, among
KJV: and perverse nation, among whom
INT: unblamable in [the] midst of a generation crooked and

Colossians 1:26 N-GFP
GRK: ἀπὸ τῶν γενεῶν νῦν δὲ
NAS: from the [past] ages and generations, but has now
KJV: and from generations, but now
INT: from the generations now moreover

Hebrews 3:10 N-DFS
GRK: προσώχθισα τῇ γενεᾷ ταύτῃ καὶ
NAS: WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID,
KJV: with that generation, and
INT: I was indignant with that generation

 

Please explain WHY you insist on the translation "race" in Mat. 24 et al. What does Jesus mean by "this race?" What are the implications for those who today claim descent from Abraham?

You are concentrating on a specific translation, but your translation has a significance way beyond the immediate context - still today.

 

That is really the main point to all of this, as the Greek text allows the viable option of having it seen as being "Race", but thosr rejecting it are basing that on it not fitting into their theology!

 

I've already explained this. You apparently are at a loss in understanding references to the original languages. I did not say that genea should be translated "race." I said that's one possible translation. When I looked up how I actually translated into Japanese, I used 時代, jidai, meaning "era" or "age." I stand by that.

 

I'm ticked that my students were dragged into this discussion. (I have a hard time calling this a debate.) We just got out of chapel, where a Hispanic pastor preached a wonderful message to us. Almost 40 of them plan to be missionaries (many are MKs, missionary kids), and the rest all are here to serve God in some other way. The majority have been on mission trips. I think of them as grandkids.

On Mondays we have a "Testimony Chapel," and hear wonderful testimonies from the students on witnessing, souls won, divine appointments, personal growth, transparent confession of failures and God's help.

I'm teaching Greek 102 in a 9 week block, and my kids are all doing great translating 1 John 4 right now, with the final Friday. The lowest grade is a C, so this is my smartest class ever; and their attitude is superb.

On Monday I'll start teaching a two week block in the seminary on eschatology, and the students are excited. They come by my office asking about paper topics, course content, textbooks and outside reading. The main text will be Christian Doctrine, 2nd ed., by Millard Erickson (not a dispensationalist), and he presents the positions quite fairly. They will be required to read about 900 additional pages, including 400 of outside reading, and if they went to read a preterist book, guess what--I'll let them, as long as the author is a recognized scholar (Gentry or Sproul, for example). I have every confidence that these students are mature enough to make up their own minds, and not just imitate the prof.

 

It's not my semantics. It's what the lexicons say. I didn't write the lexicons. And FYI, in linguistics, "semantics" is simply "the study of meaning." (Both of my dictionaries of linguistics have the exact same meaning.)

 

I disagree. The passage is easily exegeted with the grammatical-historical method.

 

Try to understand, John. Words have a meaning and significance in their CONTEXT.

So lets insert era/age -

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this era/age will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.​

I presume you mean by that the Old Covenant era/age -

Heb. 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.​

That appears to refer to AD 70, & agrees time-wise with "this generation" but both "race" & "generation" refer to living people, but with very different meaning, generation implying 40 years, but "race" continuing till all these things take place.

Does that mean that the Jewish race will end in AD 70? Or that Jesus reference to the destruction was not about AD 70?

Please, stop the semantics & start explaining Scripture.

 

Guess that we have to accept that Strongs is no longer the gold medal of greek tools!

 

The New Covenant though came at Pentacost in full, in the birth of the Church, not AD 70!
And the OT prophecies were that the time of the new hearts was when messiah came and ruled over israel and the nations, correct?

 

But not with the spiritual/symbolic method that well!

 

Have you used Strong's numbering system? Has it been replaced by a new system - WHICH? I'm NOT asking about the concordance.

 

Remember, it's grammatical-historical interpretation. When John wrote Revelation in Greek, the word for "star," aster, was used for all planetary bodies: stars, comets, meteors. Note: the star of Bethlehem was the same word, and the metaphorical "wandering stars" of Jude v. 13 were the same word.

So, if many good-sized meteors fell to earth, yes, the earth would still exist.