Now you're talking! Do you have Scripture for these statements?
And once again, did Keach or Chilton tell you what the NT words for figures of speech are? I think that is very relevant to this discussion. If you want to do this from Scripture rather than Chilton, Keatch, and Gentry, get started!
I'm glad you mentioned this, because it brings up the fact that the uneducated (yet still intelligent), the poor (yet rich in Christ), the weak (yet with Christ's strength) do not interpret the Bible spiritually. They simply believe it as is, because that is normal communication. As you know, I was a missionary for 33 years in Japan. I have also lectured in a Bible school in a Muslim country not in Africa, and have taught Bible translation methodology in an African country. Never have I had a new believer, someone completely unfamiliar with American Christian culture, decide to interpret "spiritually." That is learned behavior, not natural, so it's not God's plan for interpreting the Bible. (And they don't have to be told what figures of speech are. They understand this naturally, according to the language ability God gives to all humans.)
In And the Word Came With Power, Bible translator Joanne Shetler tells how she was translating the Bible into the language of a tribe in the Philippines. With her tribal helper she came to 1 Tim. 2:12 about women teaching men. Her tribal helper read that Scripture on Sunday to the tribal church, and said, "We found in the Bible where it says that women aren't supposed to teach men, so I guess I have to be the one" (p. 87). He interpreted literally, unlike many "civilized" evangelicals who can't abide God's truth about gender roles, and became the pastor.
Think about it. You yourself give witness that you used to interpret literally. Your current method of interpretation is learned behavior, so it's not natural interpretation.
You missed my main point about Chilton, which was that if he got his degrees at a degree mill, then they are fake and he was dishonest in passing himself off as a scholar with advanced degrees. I don't care what the man teaches, if he is dishonest I will ignore him and get my information elsewhere.
I have a dear friend who got a doctorate at a similar school, but then realized it was a degree mill and now does not call himself "Dr." Now that is true Christian honesty.
Spiritual Interpretation....pt4
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Apr 25, 2017.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Ken Gentry has written a paperback book last year called ...the Greatness of the Great Commission. ..the Christian enterprise in a fallen world....that I would recommend. ..the footnotes are worth the book.
Another book That has helped...You can find it on Alibris for 99cents.....The Greening of the Church .....by Findlay Edge
It was not dealing with as many verses or the timing of everything, but it dealt with the concept of God calling the church to "mission". To be involved in God's plan in this world now. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Nicodemus and 1st century Jews looked very literally.
Can a man go back into the womb?
Jesus had to correct this wrong idea. If you take time you can find many such examples in the gospels.
Jn 4 :20-24.....must worship in Spirit, and Truth....no so much the physical place any longer.
The Apostles many times had a natural ,literal understanding that was corrected.
Many, I would say most raised under premillennialism teaching will be hindered from understanding many portions if scripture because they have been taught not to consider it despite all the symbols used which require spiritual interpretation. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
In Mt3:9-11......we are told....the axe is laid at the root of the tree......
In Mt 21.....after a parable about the Vineyard. ...Israel was told the Kingdom was being taken from them.....given to another nation. ....
There are many such scriptural examples given for any who want to see them. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
For the record, I'm a trichotomist. The spirit is that part of the human with which he communicates with God. So "spiritual" in Scripture simply refers to that, not some mysterious world we can't comprehend.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Since you won't answer my question (more than a brief statement with no followup) about the purpose of figures of speech, I'll tell you. They are illustrations of truth--they either illustrate truth or they hide it from those not allowed to know it, as Jesus pointed out (and you never gave Scripture for). In other words, the parables are the sermon illustrations of Jesus. When you make the symbolic language primary, you've missed the whole point. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Try mt11:25....Jesus thanks the Father....because He has hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them unto babes.....
Now perhaps it is you who missed the point,the verses concerning the sun, moon and stars, are not parables...but the language used communicates Divine truth.
Can you show any premil book that deals with that language other than trying to explain it away as shooting stars, or forcing literal ideas where they plainly do not fit?
Most of my premillennialism books avoid those passages as you are doing now, because that system has no allowance for the language. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Tell you what. Try again. Ask me any direct question on any Scripture and I'll answer it. -
Covenanter Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Covenanter Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Gabriel told Daniel:
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy. Dan. 9:24
That prophesies the saving work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Was he mistaken when he prayed :
I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. John 17:4 -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I am not attacking you personally. I am attacking or questioning the system of interpretation that does not allow letting collected texts form a pattern that is God given.
The question at issue is...does scripture interpret scripture....or do we have to import things from outside .....Apache helicopters.....are scorpions, etc -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Covenanter Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If you completely separate week 70 from Gabriel's prophecy of Jesus' saving work then you are imposing an interpretation that has no basis in the text, nor linguistic justification. -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If that's not what you said, please be more careful in what you say, because it certainly read that way. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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