You're just repeating yourself, please answer the question: Which word used by Paul means "wife"?
The Role of Women in the Baptist Faith
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by rlvaughn, Oct 22, 2018.
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
KJV Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
NKJV Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
ESV Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
NLT In the same way, their wives must be respected and must not slander others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.
HCSB Wives, too, must be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything.
NET Likewise also their wives must be dignified, not slanderous, temperate, faithful in every respect. -
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"Note that 1 Timothy 3:8-13 moves from the qualifications of overseers (1 Tim. 3:1-7) to the qualifications of deacons. It does so in these words: “Deacons likewise must be men of dignity” (1 Tim. 3:8, NASB 1995). The Greek word translated “Deacons” is Διακόνους (Diakonous). It is a masculine plural noun. A slightly different form of this word, διακόνοι [diakonoi], is used in verse 12. There it is masculine plural as well. Verses 8-9 deal with the personal character of deacons and verse 10 deals with the testing of deacons. The Γυναῖκας (Gynaikas) of verse 11 are distinguished from the Διακόνους (Diakonous) of verse 11 in two ways. This distinction is first indicated by the adverb “likewise.” The same adverb functions to distinguish “overseers” from “deacons” in 3:8. The distinction is indicated secondly by the fact that the group discussed in verse 11 are called Γυναῖκας (Gynaikas) . Verses 8-13 move from the overseers to the deacons. Verse 11 moves from the deacons’ personal qualifications to other qualifications. Verse 11 moves from the deacons themselves to their marriages (vv. 11-12a) and families (v. 12b). This order from personal to marital and then family is the same as is found in 3:1-2a (personal), 2b (marital), and 4-5 (family) with reference to overseers. The transition from personal qualifications (3:8-10) to marital and family (3:11-12) is a natural one given the pattern with the overseers. There is good reason, then, to translate Γυναῖκας (Gynaikas) as “wives.” It follows the pattern just mentioned and sets the stage for the deacons’ domestic life. It also follows a pattern in Paul that when he uses a form of γυνή (gynē) in the context of marriage the word indicates wife (e.g., 1 Tim. 5:9; Titus 1:6; Eph. 5:22; and Col. 3:22)."
"Something else is of interest. If 3:8 begins the section on deacons, it would seem awkward for Paul to intend “deaconesses” or “women” not the wives of deacons in 3:11 only to go back to deacons and their own wives in verse 12."
1 Timothy 3:11–“women” or “wives”
Of special interest to note also is, if Paul meant to describe Women Deacons in vs 11, he could have easily used the feminie form of the word deacons, but instead he chose to use the word for Wives/Women.
1 Timothy 3:11's context does not warrant the using the translation as woman instead of wives.
So no God did NOT give qualifications for women deacons Jerome. -
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Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I see that you didn't even respond to the contextual and grammatical arguments. -
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Wesley Briggman Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Is this a distinction of Baptist doctrine or are there denominations that take the same position? -
Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Ha!
Hard to keep it all straight, isn't it?
I did ask Yeshua1/DaChaser1/JesusFan where he was getting "wife", and he did not provide a source. -
Wesley Briggman Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
1Ti 3:11 KJV - Even so [must their] wives [be] grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 KJV - Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Not being a Greek scholar, my question is: Can the genders referenced in these verses be interchanged applying them equally? -
Jordan Kurecki Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Wesley Briggman Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
My question was/is based on the following from post #20:
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Wesley Briggman Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I don't know how you got that mixed up.
I have made no case in this discussion for a woman to be an "elder" (whatever you assume that to mean) and have simply noted that Phoebe was a deacon in the church and was highly respected by Paul (Romans 16:1). This verse may also indicate that she was Paul's representative to the churches in Rome, bearing the letter and possibly reading it to those congregations with the proper inflection and emphasis, answering questions the congregation may have had.
Since Phoebe was a deacon in the church, that informs our interpretation of Paul's character qualifications for deacons. -
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You have the best post ever made on this subject!
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