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That is the absolute saddest thing that I have ever heard.
YOUR Bible really does not speak of the absolute sovereignty of God?
A quick bit from our Presbyterian and Dutch Reformed brothers:
God from all eternity did, by the most wise (Rom. 11:33) and holy counsel of His own will, freely (Rom. 9:15, 18), and unchangeably (Heb. 6:17) ordain whatsoever comes to pass (Eph. 1:11): yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin (James 1:13 , 17; 1 John 1:5 ), nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures (Matt. 17:12; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28); nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established (John 19:11 ; Prov. 16:33).
Verses presented for ease of reading:
[Rom 11:33-36 NASB] 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35 Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him [be] the glory forever. Amen.
[Rom 9:14-18 NASB] 14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
[Heb 6:13-20 NASB] 13 For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, "I WILL SURELY BLESS YOU AND I WILL SURELY MULTIPLY YOU." 15 And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. 16 For men swear by one greater [than themselves,] and with them an oath [given] as confirmation is an end of every dispute. 17 In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, 18 so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. 19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a [hope] both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, 20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
[Eph 1:9-12 NASB] 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, [that is,] the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.
[Jas 1:12-18 NASB] 12 Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which [the Lord] has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. 18 In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.
[1Jo 1:5 NASB] 5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
[Mat 17:9-13 NASB] 9 As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead." 10 And His disciples asked Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" 11 And He answered and said, "Elijah is coming and will restore all things; 12 but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." 13 Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist.
[Act 2:22-23 NASB] 22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 23 this [Man,] delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put [Him] to death.
[Act 4:27-28 NASB] 27 "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur .
[Jhn 19:8-12 NASB] 8 Therefore when Pilate heard this statement, he was [even] more afraid; 9 and he entered into the Praetorium again and said to Jesus, "Where are You from?" But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 So Pilate said to Him, "You do not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?" 11 Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has [the] greater sin." 12 As a result of this Pilate made efforts to release Him, but the Jews cried out saying, "If you release this Man, you are no friend of Caesar; everyone who makes himself out [to be] a king opposes Caesar."
[Pro 16:33 NASB] 33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD .
God's plans are not frustrated:
[Psa 115:1-8 NASB] 1 Not to us, O LORD, not to us, But to Your name give glory Because of Your lovingkindness, because of Your truth. 2 Why should the nations say, "Where, now, is their God?" 3 But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases. 4 Their idols are silver and gold, The work of man's hands. 5 They have mouths, but they cannot speak; They have eyes, but they cannot see; 6 They have ears, but they cannot hear; They have noses, but they cannot smell; 7 They have hands, but they cannot feel; They have feet, but they cannot walk; They cannot make a sound with their throat. 8 Those who make them will become like them, Everyone who trusts in them.
[Eph 1:11 NASB] 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will
[Psa 33:6-12 NASB] 6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host. 7 He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap; He lays up the deeps in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. 9 For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast. 10 The LORD nullifies the counsel of the nations; He frustrates the plans of the peoples. 11 The counsel of the LORD stands forever, The plans of His heart from generation to generation.
God does not suggest or propose, God "decrees" and it comes to pass:
[Dan 4:24 NASB] 24 this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High
Even the days of our lives are determined by the SOVEREIGN WILL of God:
[Jas 4:13-17 NASB] 13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit." 14 Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are [just] a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. 15 Instead, [you ought] to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that."
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Still the word "Sovereign" is not found in the NASB.God can do any thing He wishes though He never makes us sin. God temps no man to sin
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" which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign , the King of kings and Lord of lords, [be] honor and eternal dominion! Amen." ( 1 Timothy 6:15-16 , NASB )
kyredneck
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All humans are 'predisposed ' to be self willed 'non-Cals' from birth. It's our condition by default.
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Were non-Calvinists predestinated to be non-Calvinists?
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One truth about Calvinist is that they are of two minds.
First they say God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, and then they say God did not predestine our each and every sin.
AustinC
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One truth about Calvinist is that they are of two minds.
First they say God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, and then they say God did not predestine our each and every sin.
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You struggle with the ordination of God.
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Calvinism offers cognitive dissonance, and claims others not so inclined have problems.
:)
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Cute. But you didn't answer the OP question.
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What a goofy question.
How I interpret it is this:
Were people predestined to misunderstand the Sovereignty of God and be self-centered instead?
Indeed, God has ordained that Christians will struggle, with their flesh fighting against the Spirit.
Galatians 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. Click to expand...
You didn't answer the OP question.
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A) What's the functional difference between "predestinated" and "ordained"?
Yeshua1
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One truth about Calvinist is that they are of two minds.
First they say God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, and then they say God did not predestine our each and every sin.
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Calvinism in regards to TULIP is of God though, as sinful man would not dream up a grace based theology, but keep to own good works!
AustinC
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Yes I did. You may not grasp that I answered it.
InTheLight
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#5. YOU ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE
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None.
The word "predestined" just has specific scriptural "baggage" that should not also be applied to all other things (like sin).
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Ah, ok. That makes sense now. Thank you for being the only one thus far with enough integrity to answer clearly.
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level capable
InTheLight
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Is it just me,level capable
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Wow, you just destroyed my response! I'm devastated!
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I disagree.
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How can God be in complete control of every thing if He can't stop you from sinning?
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It's ok.
If you just try a little harder, then God WILL love you. ;)