Historical Archive? You can have a catholic bishop, pope even say Hitler is God almighty. That doesn't change catholic teaching.
Suppose I need better understanding of Christianity. Is Joseph Smith a Valid source? What about Ellen G White?
Is there anyone in the entire world who agrees with you?
Have you met Oseas3? He claims no one on earth has better understanding of scripture than he does.
Do you see the pickle I am in? We got multiple self proclaimed prophets who's prime directive teaches that anyone of differ understanding is evil.
Everyone says everyone else is evil.
WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ? - IT IS NOT SUNDAY
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 3rdAngel, Sep 29, 2019.
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Squire Robertsson AdministratorAdministrator
Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 8:50 AM Pacific. -
In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).
The Sabbath was not offered to all the nations or to the fathers. It was given to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.
Nehemiah 9:13 - “Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 “So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses. Exodus 34:27 - Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” Leviticus 24:8 - Every Sabbath he shall set it in order before the Lord continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant. ;)
RESTED (shabath) Strong’s #7673 Definition: to cease, desist, rest. *Notice that we do not find the Hebrew word “shabbath” Strong’s #7676 Definition: sabbath in Genesis 2:3. In the initial account of God’s creation, not only is there no explicit command and no use of the term ‘Sabbath,’ as found in Exodus 16:31 and there is also no mention of humanity. The depiction of the seventh day is solely in terms of God. The text of Genesis 1-2 unfolds God’s creative work and its completion in six days, followed by God’s rest. *So this culminates with God’s resting and no suggestion of some universal moral obligation for humanity to keep the sabbath.
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Jesus responded by giving an example from the Old Testament in which David was once in need of food and was given consecrated bread that was only lawful for the priests to eat (1 Samuel 21:1-6). The bread had served a practical need for David and his followers, just as with Jesus and His disciples, the grain served a practical need. David and his men were not acting sinfully in eating the showbread, and neither were Jesus’ disciples acting sinfully in plucking heads of grain on the Sabbath. Jesus concludes, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27-28) Jesus' response to the accusing Pharisees contains some important teachings:
The Sabbath was intended to help people and not burden them. In contrast with the hard daily work as slaves in Egypt, the Israelites were commanded to take a day of rest each week under the Mosaic Law. The Pharisees had turned the Sabbath into a burden, adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. The disciples had not broken God’s law; they had only violated the Pharisees’ legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the Sabbath rest. Jesus statement does not teach that the Sabbath was made for all mankind, as you suppose.
*Jesus said, "the Sabbath was made for man," not all mankind. When Scripture is meant to be inclusive of all mankind it is clear. *See (Matthew 28:19; John 3:16; Acts 2:17; 1 Timothy 2:4; Titus 2:11). These verses clearly indicate that when God offers something to all mankind He clearly offers it to all.
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Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Ephesians 2:15 - Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.
2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. *Such much for your theories.
Colossians 2:16 is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint.
Look at Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a, festival - yearly Sabbaths, a new moon - monthly Sabbaths, or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)" CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.
When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed: "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."
Verse 10 flatly states, "you observe...",
days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Colossians 2)
months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Colossians 2)
seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Colossians 2)
and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)
Obviously Paul is speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy days, including the weekly Sabbath.
When God wants to refer to the whole system of Jewish holy days, rather than name them all, He would refer to the yearly, monthly and weekly as representing the whole system. SDA's argue that the Sabbath Day of Colossians 2:16 is the years Sabbaths. But yearly Sabbaths were already referred to in Colossians 2:16 as "festivals". The "Year, Month, Week" pattern is so well established in the Old Testament, that Colossians 2:16 must refer to the weekly Sabbath.
Yearly, monthly, weekly pattern proves it is the weekly sabbath
1 Chronicles 23:31 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 2:4 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 8:13 - Yearly (annual feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 31:3 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Nehemiah 10:33 - Yearly (appointed times), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbaths)
Isaiah 1:13-14 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbath)
Ezekiel 45:17 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Ezek 46:1-11 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbath)
Hosea 2:11 - Yearly (festal assemblies), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Galatians 4:10 - years, months, days
Colossians 2:16 - festival, new moon, Sabbath day -
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Now DAN, this has already been addressed in some detail already showing that the SABBATH has it's origin at CREATION in GENESIS not at SINAI. I have noticed you simply have ignored my post to you and the questions asked of you that show why you are in error. So I do understand why you have ignored post # 59 linked. I suggest you read it because ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.
The origin of the SABBATH or when the SABBATH was made or introduced to mankind was in GENESIS where God made it for mankind *MARK 2:27-28 on the SEVENTH DAY of the creations week when mankind was in perfect harmony with God and before the fall of mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3. Now if the SABBATH was made at creation when there was no JEW and no ISREAL and JESUS as the creator says that he made it for mankind how can the SABBATH be only for the JEWS or ISREAL when there were no JEWS or ISREAL or God's plan of salvation for mankind because there was no sin? Can you see the error in your premise brother? I think you do. That is why you did not respond to post # 59 linked that alerady addressed your post here. Your premise (foundation) is a false one Dan so eveything you have posted now just comes tumbling down. If you disagree please answer the question; If the SABBATH was made at creation when there was no JEW and no ISREAL and JESUS as the creator says that he made it for mankind how can the SABBATH be only for the JEWS or ISREAL when there were no JEWS or ISREAL or God's plan of salvation for mankind because there was no sin?
Before the WRITTEN WORD of GOD there was the SPOKEN WORD of GOD * GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc). If BEFORE the written Word was given at SINIA there was the SPOKEN Word of God what makes you think that God's people did not KNOW about God's LAWS including God's SABBATH? Let's look at some examples that suggest God's LAW was known through the SPOKEN WORD BEFORE the WRITTEN WORD was given to God's ISRAEL.
When CAIN and ABEL were born it is clear from God’s WORD that there was SIN offerings for remission of sin as shown in GENESIS 4:1-7. We are latter told that ENOCH and NOAH walked with God *GENESIS 5:24; GENESIS 6:8 so were following God’s ways. In NOAHS time the thoughts of men were only evil continually *GENESIS 6:5-7. Jesus says that what defiles a man is an evil heart that breaks God’s commandments *MATTHEW 15:16:19.
Before the Flood God made his Covenant with NOAH and his decendance *GENESIS 9:1-9. When Abraham was present God spoke to Abraham and made his covenant with him and his descendance *GENESIS 15:18. 17:2-19.
God said of Abraham that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS. *GENESIS 26:5
The HEBREW word used for laws is TORAH. So, it is very clear that the SPOKEN WORD of GOD included God’s TORAH. The TORAH includes all God's LAWS of the OLD COVENANT from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and the SHADOW laws for remission of sin (burn't offerings and sin offerings) if God's LAW was broken.
If they had no law BEFORE the written WORD of GOD then they would have no knowledge of what sin is. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of sin offerings. Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings for sin. So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the SPOKEN Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the WRITTEN Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed.
Some more examples...
God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus says the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20).
Jacob knew about SIN (breaking God's LAW) BEFORE Mt Sinia when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters what sin have a done (Genesis 31:36).
When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).
As time goes by God detroys mankind for evil and sin with a flood as well as Sodom and Gommorah with fire and the Epyptians with plagues *GENESIS 6:5-13; GENESIS 13:10-13; 18:20-33; 19:24; EXODUS 9:13-14. If there was no knowledge of sin there would be no punishment for it. God’s WORD is very clear that all of God’s Commandments were kept by God’s people before the written WORD through the Spoken WORD of GOD.
Sorry dear friend God's WORD disagrees with you. Receive God's WORD and be blessed. -
GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had RESTED from all his work which God created and made.
The ROOT word used for SABBATH found in EXODUS is found in GENESIS which is also the ORIGIN of when the SABBATH was made in the creation week. The HEBREW word RESTED in GENESIS 2:2-3 is the root word of SABBATH.
REST = SHABATH שׁבת (H7373) this is the root word for SABBATH which is שׁבּת SHABBATH (H7676). Although REST (SHABATH) is the root word for SABBATH (SHABBATH) they are different HEBREW words and they have different meanings.
The difference between these is this...
REST SHABATH שׁבת (H7373) A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.
NOTE: This word is the resting or the keeping of the SABBATH now look at the meaning of the word SABBATH..
SABBATH SHABBATH שׁבּת (H7676) Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.
NOTE: While the root word means rest and keeping the SABBATH the HEBREW word for SABBATH in God's 4th commandments means from one SABBATH to ANOTHER or from one rest to another.
ANSWER: The commandment to keep the SABBATH every Sabbath cannot be given before the SABBATH has been made, BLESSED, MADE HOLY and SET APART by God's WORD. The Hebrew Word shabath meaning rest is how we keep the Sabbath. The Hebrew word shabbath is the noun of what is being kept or how the SABBATH is to be kept: by resting (no work). There fore even the HEBREW word meaning in GENESIS 2:1-3 which is the origin and root word for God's 4th commandment Sabbath shows that the origin of the SABBATH is at creation.
May you receive God's Word and be blessed. -
GENESIS 26:5 ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS.
The HEBREW word used for laws is TORAH. So, it is very clear that the SPOKEN WORD of GOD included God’s TORAH. The TORAH includes all God's LAWS of the OLD COVENANT from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and the SHADOW laws for remission of sin (burn't offerings and sin offerings) if God's LAW was broken.
If they had no law BEFORE the written WORD of GOD then they would have no knowledge of what sin is. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of sin offerings. Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings for sin. So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the SPOKEN Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the WRITTEN Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed.This is only one example of many Dan showing why you are in error.
There is nothing else in your post that has not already been addressed.
Recieve God's WORD and be blessed. -
Hello again Dan :Smile. You quote my post but your responding to nothing in my post did you read it?
There is no propagander. These are your words and your words are not God's WORD. They are your words denying God's Word that is shared with you. God's Word is not propagander. Now if you disagree with anything I have posted why don't you respond to my posts section by section and scripture by scripture as I do to your posts to show you why you are in error? If you disagree with what is shared with you than prove it from God's Word. If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures that are only shared in love and as a help to you?
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4521
σάββατον sabbaton Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.
This means ALL the ANNUAL FEAST days that were not the SEVENTH DAY but where no work was to be done are also translated as SABBATON in the Greek.
These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbaths (plural) were connected to. 1. Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24) 2. Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32) and the 3. Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39). These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.
In the days of JESUS and the APOSTLES their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures and everything we have in the NEW TESTAMENT comes from the OLD TESTAMENT. Paul in COLOSSIANS 2 is referring to the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. This is demonstrated in both within scripture and chapter context and can be shown directly from the OLD Testament what PAUL was referring to. Most of this is addressed in the scriptures in the liked posts above that you will not address and choose to ignore to justify ijn your own mind it is ok to break God's 4th commandment.
You are leaving out the within chapter and scriptures context here Dan -
For example let's look at the context and do a word study of GALATIANS 4:9 that you use...
GALATIONS 4:4-11 [4], But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5], To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. [6], And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. [7], Therefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. [8], But then, when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods. [9], But now, after you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? [10], You observe days, and months, and times, and years. [11], I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.
GALATIANS.4:8-11 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS. [11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Note: Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths. Its speaking of those who observe times. Let's link old to the new...
DEUTERONOMY.18:9-11 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?
2 CHRONICLES 33:3-6 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger
Note: Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.
LEVITICUS.19:26-30 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
The scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.
Receive God's Word and be blessed. -
Now here we are over 8 pages and 152 posts and not a single person can show me a single scripture that says "THE LORDS DAY" is SUNDAY or the first day of the week?
That is because my good brothers and sisters that there is no scripture that says SUNDAY or the first day of the week is "THE LORDS DAY". This is a teaching and tradition of man that is not biblical.
There is not a single scripture also that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day but many of us do just this because we are taught things that are not biblical in our Churches.
JESUS has his people in every Church *JOHN 10:16. But the hour is coming and now is that the true worshippers will worship God in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23-24. Who will hear the call to go out and meet the bridgegroom? Those who have trimmed their lamps and brought their oil. God is calling us back to the pure Word of God *REVELATION 18:1-5.
Who will hear His Voice?
God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) -
There is no verse in scripture that says Saturday is the Lord’s Day, yet the arguments for Sunday are more convincing. You are not fooling me or my brothers and sisters in Christ on the Baptistboard with your perverted Sabbath gospel.
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May you receive God's Word and be blessed. -
Ok thats enough from me. Just want to thank everyone for the discussion and for you all in sharing your thoughts. I pray that God may bless you all as you seek him through his Word.
Blessings to all -
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Thanks for the discussion. -
The Context is ALL Holy Convocations. The Weekly Sabbath is A Holy Convocation and the other Feasts are Hly as well.
Leviticus 23:1 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
The Weekly Sabbath is the first of the feasts listed. -
Actually, one of the two Holy Convocation days of Passover Week, sometimes fell on Saturday. The rules were the same as for the regular weekly Sabbath when this happens. Those days were called "High Sabbaths", same as any other day of a special occasion.
But Col. 2:16 refers to ALL Sabbaths. Because it's plural, it isn't limited to special feast days; there's more than one regular Sabbath every month. Your attempt to exclude the regular Sabbaths from the verse is just a poor attempt to defend the false SDA doctrine.
BTW, who do you say the archangel Michael is ?
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