Go take your perverted gospel and play games elsewhere as no one is stupid enough to accept your twisted interpretations followed by such threats!
What does this statement mean?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Moriah, Apr 24, 2012.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. -
For you to teach that we cannot do ANYTHING BUT believe, not even be sorry for our sins, is a lie about the Truth.
Did you see that? On the Day of Pentecost, the people who received his word and then were baptized---they were first told to repent, to be baptized, AND you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. You claim that they only had to believe, but you go against what the Word says when you teach that they only had to believe.
With many other words he warned them: and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
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Thus if this is the way that you present salvation the person will not get saved. You are asking him to do the impossible. He cannot love God, and will not obey God in his unsaved condition.
It is a message of works--a works based salvation which Paul calls "accursed." -
No one will receive the Holy Spirit until they love God.
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. -
You don't deal with the text. You ignore context. The topic was about the unsaved coming to Christ, the unsaved loving Christ, the unsaved obeying Christ.
What do you do?
You quote a command that Christ gives to his disciples only, a command on discipleship. Is this what Biblicist was referring to as RJP? I think so. -
John 14
15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. -
An unsaved person cannot love God!
An unsaved person cannot obey God!
Don't quote Scripture that Jesus uses for his disciples or for Christians. It is not applicable.
All their works are as "filthy rags." They cannot do good in the sight of God for they are unsaved.
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Here, let me repeat...
You preach falseness. You want us to believe that Jesus will not give his Spirit to those already saved unless they love him, but will give his Spirit to those who believe and not love him.
John 14
15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
DHK,
You teach falseness about the filthy rags scripture. The filthy rags scripture is to the Jews. God does not call someone searching for Him through Jesus a filthy rag act.
Now, explain again how you say Jesus is speaking to those already saved and how Jesus will or will not give them the Holy Spirit. -
God calls on unsaved men everywhere to repent and exercise faith in Him. Those works God calls upon man to perform are not filthy rags in the sight of God DHK, inspite of your failure to properly understand the true import of your favorite 'filthy rags' proof text, used by you on a consistent basis out of context and unreasonably applied.
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hp
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Second, he is speaking only to his disciples. This conversation started in chapter 13 when he washed the disciples feet. Look at some of the above Scriptures to get the context:
John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
--Thomas, one of the twelve asks him a question.
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
--Then Philip, another Apostle asks a question.
The verses you quoted are directed only to the disciples and have nothing to do with the unsaved.
--Three times (vs. 15,21,23) does Jesus tell them that the great demonstration of their discipleship and love toward Christ will be their obedience to Him.
No unsaved person can obey Christ in the way that he was demanding of his disciples. This was an intimate conversation with his disciples right before the Jews and Romans came to arrest him just a few chapters later.
John 14:16-19 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
The Comforter (Holy Spirit would come) but they would not see Christ; Christ would go. -
John 14
15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. -
Read and understand. I did answer your question. It is addressed to disciples, Christians, not the unsaved.
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Let us see how you explain this. -
Those (Christians) that love Christ will keep his commandments.
The great demonstration of our love for Him is evidenced in our obedience to Him.
That is the first part of your question.
The second part I have explained already. The Holy Spirit would come at Pentecost. He constantly told his apostles to wait at Jerusalem until the Comforter or the Spirit would come. Even in Acts 1, the disciples were told the same thing.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
The Holy Spirit would come with power on the Day of Pentecost. -
You cannot have it both ways. Obedience is obedience and disobedience is disobedience, NOT obeying the commandments of God. You cannot say one loves God that is serving the flesh by sinning day after day, year after year, as a normal daily practice. Such a lifestyle is NOT in keeping with love and obedience towards God. It shows forth a lifestyle at direct antipodes with obedience and love towards God.
Choose ye this day who ye will serve is the clarion call. Choose one side or the other, either live in obedience or sin everyday, but living with one foot in the flesh and one in the Spirit daily will not work. Either you will love the one and despise the other, but one cannot serve God and mammon. -
Try again.
Jesus says those who obey will receive the Holy Spirit. Since you say they are already saved, what happens to the Christians that do NOT obey Jesus? -
Too bad you haven't read the consequence of that claim in 1John 1:8,10. -
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