1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What Happened To mankind in the fall of Adam ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Apr 25, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 4 of 8
  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @Aaron hit the nail squarely on the head. Jesus was "flesh" like we are "flesh". He shared in our human nature, yet in that nature he did not sin.

    The problem with @Yeshua1 's misunderstanding here is that it negates the purpose of the Incarnation. Jesus became human (like we are human) in order to redeem us. Had Jesus come in some other nature (i.e., a type of human nature that hypothetically existed only with Adam and Eve, but was then lost), impervious to physical weakness, sickness and death (except he be killed) then we would have no hope as he wouldn't have been our representative. The Incarnation itself becomes meaningless.

    Jesus was not more than us in his human nature, nor was he less than God in his divinity. We may not be able to understand this as the "math" doesn't add up, but it is something that we can accept because it is what Scripture teaches.
     
    #61 JonC, Apr 26, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Exactly, what kind of "life" was he talking about? Underline the pronoun "I". The life of self.

    Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
     
    #62 HankD, Apr 26, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    9,631
    Likes Received:
    332
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is more likely that the Lord stated "Ye must be born from above." That Nicodemus likely misinterpreted the Lord's use of anōthen doesn't change anything (Example, "That man is lying," responded to with "No, he is standing up!"). He goes on to say one must be born of the Spirit, which would correlate to being "born from above," which would correlate to being Born of God, which is dealt with in Chapter One.

    Being born again refers to the second birth. When we are born the first time, it is not with a sin nature, the sin nature is the inevitable result of what we are born without: the life Christ came to give.

    We, unlike Jesus Christ, were born separated from God, that is why we sin. But to charge the babe in the womb with sin simply because he/she is born of Adam makes little sense (And I am not saying you say this in this post). It suggests God unjustly credits sin to those who cannot possibly have sinned, when we are told God will judge men according to their works and words.

    Christ came to remedy man's condition, which is separation from God. A "sin nature" is not the result of the Fall, because it's pretty obvious that sin was already something man was capable of. And we note that it occurred when Adam and Eve were apart from God's physical presence in the Garden, and the result was a separation without end in a physical sense (they were thrust out of the Garden). Physical reunion will ultimately be fulfilled in the Eternal State, when we will dwell with God as Adam did before he disobeyed the Word of God.


    God bless.
     
    #63 Darrell C, Apr 26, 2018
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nope, was showing to us that unless we avail ourselves of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, even the saved will be weak in the flesh!
     
    #64 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am not saying that jesus did not a physical flesh body as we all have, but that he did have the sin nature that we have! he was born without having that....
     
    #65 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  6. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    2,954
    Likes Received:
    425
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with that, to some extent...but the empowerment of the Holy Spirit is expounded in Chapter 8, not 7.

    Side note...all too often we get hung up on this idea of a "Constant struggle in the flesh" when, if we remove the chapter break, chapter 8 tells us it doesn't have to be so...we have the Victory in Christ by the Holy Spirit of the Living GOD--Who lives in us--Christ in us, the hope of glory!
     
    #66 JonShaff, Apr 26, 2018
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    we were all born with a sin nature, Jesus was not.....
     
    #67 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus self identified as the Son of man of Daniel, as the Messianic figure that was said to be coming, and not using that to see Himself as being son of man as referring to his humanity.
     
    #68 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He was conceived of/by the Holy Spirit in Mary, correct?
     
    #69 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We are sinners, born with a sin nature, due to the fall of Adam, while Jesus had no sin nature in His humanity, as His Virgin Birth bypassed the effects of the fall!
     
    #70 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus was as much a human being as we are, except that he had no sin nature, as we all have!
     
    #71 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,817
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where exactly do you find this term 'sin nature' in the Bible?
    That we are all sinners from birth is undoubtedly true, and it is equally true that the Lord Jesus was not a sinner at any time.
    What I read is that as to His human nature He was made in all things just as we are, yet without sin. That is enough for me; anything else is speculation.
     
    #72 Martin Marprelate, Apr 26, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You keep repeating the same statement. Think about why you have proved unable to evidence your claim through Scripture. Think about why the Church denounced your position (that Jesus did not truly have the type of nature common to man) as heresy.

    I believe the issue here is one of adopting a theology superficiality, ignoring the biblical basis from which it came, and building theory upon theory out of it.

    This is common with post-postmodern thought. We see this in our culture. The younger generation appreciates older music (my kind of music) but as neo culture. For those my age, the music grew out of cultural experience. For the younger crowd their cultural environment is influenced by the music (the substance is different).
     
    #73 JonC, Apr 26, 2018
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus was not born with a sin nature, but all of us were....
     
    #74 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do we have a sin nature in us when born?
     
    #75 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  16. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A better term would be fallen nature. Romans 7 and other passages teach that due to the Fall, we have a law of sin in our flesh that brings us into captivity until we are freed by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus


    Man indeed is fallen, but if Christ sets you free you are free indeed
     
    #76 glad4mercy, Apr 26, 2018
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,817
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't know what a sin nature is; I don't find the term in Scripture. If you mean that Jesus was not born a sinner, but all of us were, then I agree with you.
     
    #77 Martin Marprelate, Apr 26, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The sin aspect of our nature as being humans who are not willing to agree with God, to submit to Him, our own self will so to speak!
     
    #78 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. We are responsible for our sin - can't blame it on God making us with a sin nature. We have a human nature and we choose to sin. Jesus has a human nature and did not sin. I am not exactly sure where you are getting this idea that Jesus was born with a different kind of human nature.
     
    #79 JonC, Apr 26, 2018
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We are born as sinners, and we continue to sin, as all fs are accountable to God.Is not a belief in humans having sin natures one of the orthodox truths of Christianity?
    Jesus did not see, as God cannot sin....
     
    #80 Yeshua1, Apr 26, 2018
Page 4 of 8
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...