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What Happened To mankind in the fall of Adam ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Apr 25, 2018.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, it is not. Orthodox Christianity holds that we all sin, that sin is birthed when temptation and the desires of the flesh conceive (James 1). The idea that Jesus came with a nature different from ours, that our illness, suffering, and physical mortality was foreign to Christ was denounced as unorthodox centuries ago.

    Christ was born with and into the same humanity you and I share, yet without sin.
     
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

    4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


    Brother Glen:)
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Orthodox Christianity states that all humans , as a direct result of the fall of Adam, have received in us at conception/birth a nature thgat is sinful, that is self willed to be against God, to have our own way!
    Chapter 6
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Exactly. Christ's qualification as our High Priest is dependent on him being "one of us".
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he was just as one of us, in that he was a human being, but totally different from any of us, as he was without a sin nature, and was God!
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Nowhere does Scripture state our nature itself is sinful.

    It is with this hypothetical nature that you stray from the Bible in your Christlogy. You have decided our nature is sinful therefore Christ was not truly "flesh" (as we are). You have decided that since death and sickness came with the Fall Jesus was not subject to illness and death as we are.

    This is NOT orthodox thinking. 8n fact, your view of Christ and this "third" nature was deemed heresy centuries ago.

    Christ shared in our "infirmities", he was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The 1644/1689 Reformed Confessions seem to be agreeing with me though on this issue!
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Scripture doesn't.

    The idea that Jesus had a "different kind" of nature, one that is foreign to mankind, is simply heresy. The idea that Jesus came in the flesh, but a kind of flesh that couldn't suffer the illnesses, pains, and natural death that is common to man is heresy. NOTHING you say can change that fact.

    The reason earlier Christians declared your view heresy is because it denies biblical redemption on the grounds of the Incarnation. It, in fact, redefines the incarnation.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The reason why we are subject to all of those things is that we have been corrupted by the fall, are sinners, subject to the Curse and fall, jesus NEVER was!
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    like I said - old heresy repackaged.

    Odd. My dog got sick and we had him put down last year (he was 17). Do dogs sin?

    Anyway, for what sin do you believe Job suffered?
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You Asked: Did Jesus Assume a Fallen Human Nature?.
    You are in agreement with 2 theologians, while my understanding is with every Reformed/Baptist one pretty much!
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I wonder how many Reformed Baptists here believe that Jesus came in a "different flesh", a different human nature than is common to man. I wonder how many believe Jesus never got sick and would have lived eternally on this earth had he not been killed. I wonder how many believe Jesus did not share in our infirmity but instead was a different type of human.

    I bet more rely on Scripture than you think.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How many reformed christians agree with you that humans do not have a sin nature, or that Jesus dod not have to come via the Virgin Birth to avoid the corruption of His flesh that the fall gave to all of us?
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    All of the ones that are sticking to Scripture on the point. I know of very few today who hold the biological sin view of Christ's birth (and I'm including you).
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So that would mean a vast majority of reformed and Baptist theologians missed this?
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. It would mean that you are in the minority. Orthodox Christians denounced the notion of Jesus coming in a different "flesh" centuries ago. This is a superstition on your part - an old heresy.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Wonder why Calvin/Hodgh/Grudem/Berhof/turretin/et all all saw jesus as being boen without a sin nature, his flesh not corrupted by the fall as all of us were?
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying that Jesus was not one of us if he did not have our sin nature?
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So did the authors of the Confessions of the faith, and they agreed with my take on this!
     
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    God created the universe to glorify the Son. It was not a response to the fall of the angels.
     
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