What has ceased from the Old T to the New T?
What has ceased from the New T to 21st Century?
What make it ceased?
What has ceased?
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by micahaaron, Mar 8, 2004.
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The ceremonial Law of the OT is no-longer applicable to Christians. I can't think of anything that has 'ceased' from 33 A.D. til the present age, however, in the west, because of our worldliness and the influences of humanism/Rationalism, we don't look for/expect the miraculous, and therefore don't see it often.
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Clearly, the gifts of Tongues, Interpretation of tongues, Healing, and Miracles have ceased. This is proved by scripture and practical application. Also, new revelation has ceased as God's Word is complete.
All the "rules" of the Law had ceased by the start of the new "church", this includes tithing.
I could go on but won't,
In Christ,
Brian -
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Gods Word is complete? With all the arguments people have about translations and versions and such! Give me a break!
And please don't tell that the Word in this instance is Jesus, because the statement Paul made about "when that which is perfect is come that which is in part will pass away" was made AFTER He already came!!
As for what has ceased, this looks like a lively discussion is about to come forth!!
Working for Hom,
Tam,
:eek: -
Tam, who's Hom, and why are you working for him?
Gina -
I asked the question of how many biblical topics have ceased from point a to b and point b to c.
Why? To understand God, Scriptures and human nature bent on unbelief and traditions.
MA -
With the perfect revelation of God in His Word, no revelation, word of knowledge, word of prophecy - all horribly abused by the "name-it-and-claim-it" cruisematics (term my pastor used to refer to a slick pentecostal!) is needed today.
That which is "perfect" is come! -
When it comes to the subject of tongues - let's say that they have not ceased (not what I believe) - if practiced Scripturally - you would get rid of about 95% of their use!
Dan -
Please tell me what do we do with John 14:8-21?
v.12 Jesus said, He that beliveth on me, the works that I do he do also; and greater works........
If "WHO" belives on Jesus? "WHO" can do the works the He did and greater works?
Who was He talking about and what works could He be talking about?
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I'm with Jude please provide the scriptures and the practical applications that prove this.
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~micahaaron thanks for a interesting topic~ :D
Music4Him -
I think it's important, because the role of hermenuetics is getting relative. Everybody has got an interpretation that is different from one another. One person says it ceased, another doesn't. Why?
For Apologetic reasons, how do you say that polygamy has ceased to someone who believes it hasn't? How do you say tithing has ceased to someone who believes it hasn't? How do you say women preachers (1 Tim. 2) has ceased to someone who believes it hasn't? And so forth and so forth.
Last week on the Blasphemy of HS post on the Calvinism debate, I have heard for the 1st time in my life from Bro. Dallas Eaton that Blasphemy of HS ceased. This is new to me, for all the teachers I've been under and radio preachers I've listen to, none of them says it ceased.
What makes a biblical topic ceased? Man's unbelief and tradition or God and Scriptures?
MA -
Gina---it's "working for Him"
Thats what happens when my fingers go faster than my brain.
Tam -
I am still waiting for a biblical defense of the cessation of so called miraculous gift
p.s. (by biblical I mean using the bible inm context)
Alain -
I agree with Jude.
In foreign countries, the lame are walking, the blind are seeing, the deaf are hearing. -
"All the "rules" of the Law had ceased by the start of the new "church", this includes tithing."
Matthew 5:17-19 tells us that the Law has not passed away.
The ecclessia (bride) was betrothed at Mt. Sinai when and where the ketuba (bridal contract/Mosiac covenant) was given. I don't believe the "church" has the authority to do away with the Law.
If the gifts passed away did the Holy Spirit leave as well?
Cotton -
Haven't the daily sacrifices stopped? Like Aaron and tribe of Levi used to do in the OT and mentioned in the NT after Jesus was born with the turtledoves thing?
Music4Him -
Music4Him posted:
Micahaaron posted:
"A bishop must be the husband of one wife" So must a deacon, which is simply a servant, a standard which could be adopted by every member of the church. Polygamy is against the law. Romans 13 teaches to obey the authorities (government) that is over you.
Tithing is a controversial subject and should be left up to each individual church and pastor to decide if they want to follow that practice or not. It is a matter of soul liberty. If your church teaches tithing and you don't like it or don't agree with it, then respectfully disagree, or agree to disagree, or leave and find another church that you can agree with.
The Bible definitely teaches that a woman should not have authority over a man, that a woman cannot teach a man, how then can she be a pastor. If you are in a church that has a female pastor you are therefore in a church that is in disobedience to God's Word. Leave it.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Alain posted:
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
Verse three mentions three sign gifts: prophecy, tongues, and knowledge (revelatory knowledge). It tells us that they will all cease or pass away. The question that everyone has is when? The answer is given in the following verses. I will only give it briefly here as it has been gone over many times before.
"For we know in part"—Paul says to the Corinthians that we only know in part. Remember to whom he is writing. The Corinthians only had part of the Word of God. They only had the O.T., and possibly one or two of the early books like James or Matthew. They knew only in part, for they did not have the entire New Testament. It had not been written. Therefore God gave them these revelatory gifts: prophecy, tongues (with interpretation), and revelatory knowledge, to make up for the New Testament knowledge that they did not have.
"And we prophesy in part"—Here he gives the reason why they prophesied in part, why the gift was given. It was to make up for the rest of the New Testament knowledge that they didn't have. They only knew in part, therefore the other part was made up with prophecy and tongues and revelatory knowledge.
"But when that which is perfect is come"—that which is perfect is the Word of God. The word "that" is a neuter pronoun in the Greek, not a masculine pronoun. Therefore it could not refer to Christ who is masculine. It refers to the Bible which was completed at the end of the first century with the completion of the book of Revelation, also the last book to be written chronologically. The word "perfect" also means "completed." We have the completed Word of God."
When that which is perfect or complete is come, then that which is "in part" (the sign gifts of tongues, prophecy, and revelatory knowledge shall be done away. And at the end of the first century they were. History tells us that they disappeared by that time. We have no record of them until they appeared in a another form, a form of some kind of gibberish which is not the tongues of the Bible in 1901, 1800 years after Biblical tongues ceased.
LadyEagle posted:
Cotton posted:
Colossians 2:13-15 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
There was no church in the Old Testament. The church started on the Day of Pentecost. Every believer in Christ since then makes up the bride of Christ. Even John the Baptist, the last of the Old Testament prophets, called himself a friend of the bride, and not part of the bride itself. Christ did away with the law. We are not under the law; we are under grace.
Every believer has the Holy Spirit. Simply because an event passes away does not mean the presence of the Holy Spirit passes away. Are you a liberal that believes God is dead?
Check out 1Cor.14:21,22. Tongues were a sign for the unbelieving Jews of the first century.
DHK -
The initial quote I contested on the Law passing away was made by Jude.
The 'handwriting of ordinances against us' is sin and the curse of death with it - not the Law! Heaven and Earth had not passed away last time I checked-which is the verse you failed to answer.
As for being a liberal; some call me liberal and some a legalist; I don't believe God is dead any more than I believe his Torah is.
Every believer does have the Holy Spirit. Simply because some don't manifest certain gifts doesn't mean the presence of gifts passes away. Concerning 1Cor.14:21,22 ...prophecey is for believers... are believers still around? Is prophecy a gift?
Cotton -
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Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Ephesians 2:14-15 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
It is evident that Christ has abolished the law, nailed it to the cross, done away with it, fulfilled it--in order that we might have peace with him. The law brings sin and death. Through Christ alone there is peace and salvation.
If the gifts passed away did the Holy Spirit leave as well?
It is an inference that the Holy Spirit has left the world--that is, that God is dead. He no longer is with us, no longer is with any believer--does not exist. How else should one take it. It is a liberal's point of view--a denial of the existence of God.
1 Corinthians 14:21-22 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Verse 21 is a quote from the Old Testament--In the law it is written (from Isaiah 28:11). It is written to "this people" which is the nation of Israel. Men of other tongues would speak to the nation of Israel in other tongues. Yet for all that they would not hear, Isaiah says. And this is what Paul is saying by quoting Isaiah. He is referring to the nation of Israel.
Then he goes immediately to verse 22, connecting it with "Wherefore" saying that tongues are a sign for the unbeliever. That is pretty plain language. TONGUES ARE A SIGN FOR THE UNBELIEVER Along with verse 21 we put the two in their context and see that Paul is saying that tongues are for a sign to the unbelieving Jew. If they did not receive this sign then judgement would come upon them. As it happened they did not believe the sign of tongues that authenticated the gospel message as being from God, and God sentenced them to a judgement by using Titus, a Roman general, to destroy the city of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Shortly after that tongues ceased. Tongues were a sign to the unbelieving Jew. That purpose for tongues has been fulfilled. There remains no more need for tongues. It has ceased.
DHK
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