Who Says Only the Originals Have to Be Inspired?

Indeed.

HankD

 

Amen brother!!


[edited to remove unnecessary lengthy quote]

[ August 23, 2004, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]

 

AVBunyan said "Now with that let’s talk about this “doctrine” of “Only the Originals are Inspired or the True Word of God”"

I do not believe it is a doctrine. I do not hold it as such, nor do I even believe that.

 

AVBunyan: "We desire to see others know
that in their hands they can hold the
very words of God without doubt (Gen. 3:1)."

You desire has been fulfilled with me.
I have a Holman Christian Standard Bible
(HCSB) in my hand and I know beyond any
shadow of a doubt that it contains
the very words of God: preserved by the
Majesty of God throughout the age
and in a language that I understand, to wit:
21st century English.
By Faith I know without out any chance of
doubt that that the Holman Christian
Standard Bible (HCSB) contains the very
written words of God for me.
Amen! Praise Jesus,
the Living Word of God.

 

Ed, I've got one of those, too! Doesn't it read well?

 

Been using it nine months for teaching Sunday School.
I like it.

 

AVBunyan,

Amen!! to your post. Thank you so much for that post. You explained exactly what I know and understand. You have blessed me greatly, and I hope and pray others will also be blessed from reading your post. The Lord is truly glorified in your words.

Thank you again, and may we continue to glorify the Lord always in all we say and do.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

If the original autographs were around, men could meddle with them and change them. Or men would worship the original autographs like a religious relic.

God in his wisdom has kept these from us, just as he has kept the ark, the cross Jesus died on, Jesus' robe, etc. from us.

Despite man's failings like copyist errors and translation errors (even in the KJV!), God preserved his word through many translations and versions, all of which preach one God, one Savior, one Gospel message, one Church, one truth!

 

OK, he didnt have the originals. Did he have KJV? You just admitted that he had something that was inspired, and it was neither the originals nor the KJV.
I am not usually one to post to this debate, because frankly, we all seem to know where we stand without being interested in changing. But this just crossed my mind.

 

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (KJV)

2 Timothy 3:16 every Writing is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness, (YLT) Young's Literal Translation

The word "inspired means "God-breathed", as is more accurately translated in the YLT in this case. What is God-breathed? That is, what is inspired. It clearly says that the Scripture is inspired, or the Writings are inspired. The question now becomes which ones.

Posted by AVBunyan:

Where in the Bible does it say "only the originals are inspired? For the sake of some people's arrogance, and hopefully other's education and edification let's see.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

#1. Note first of all that the prophecy (as applied generally to all Scripture did not come by the will of man). The wiritings of the Old Testament prophets, the writings of the Apostles of the New Testament, came from Divine direction of the Holy Spirit. It did not come from the mind of man. No man or group of man can sit down, translate the Bible into their language, and claim that they have an inspired Bible. It does not come from the will of man. That is the first point to understand.

#2. Holy men of God spoke. Most of the prophets and apostles had an emmanuensis to copy down the words that they spoke. Whether they actually wrote their own books or not is not the point, however. The point is that they were holy men of God. The expression "holy men of God" refers only to the prophets of the Old Testament in context, and by extension the Apostles of the New Testament. Once the canon of Scripture was closed inspiration ceased. It was not the holy men of old that were inspired. It was the words that they spoke. Thus only the original manuscripts were inspired. Only what these holy men of God spoke were inspired. But not everything that they spoke were inspired.

#3. "as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" The idea here is that the inspired words that the holy men of God spoke were borne along by the Holy Spirit. Thus not everything that Paul or Peter said was inspired, only those things that the Holy Spirit moved them to say were inspired. Peter knew which of Paul's epistles were Scripture, and vice-versa. He gives us evidence of such.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--Peter speaks of Paul's epistles as Scriptures, "as they do also the other Scriptures." He recognizes that many of the epistles that Paul has written are Scripture.

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
--Note the teaching of this verse carefully. Be mindful of the words or teaching of: 1) the holy prophets (OT), and 2) "us, the apostles." Peter teaches that the words, commandments, writings of the Apostles are just as important as those of the prophets contained in the Old Testament.
Now these people did not have the KJV!! These manuscripts were written in Greek and Hebrew. God inspired the Old Testament in Hebrew, and the New Testament in Greek. He states clearly that only the words of holy men of God who spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit; only those words were inspired. Only the original manuscripts were inspired. This is a Biblical teaching. It always has been. Nowadays there is a group of people who are rejecting this plain truth of the Bible. These original words of the Apostles and Prophets were inspired, that is, God-breathed. God did not breathe the breath of life into any other writers othen than them. To say otherwise is heresy.

Though I respect the KJV very much; though it is the translation that I use most of the time, I must come face to face with the facts—the KJV is only a translation. ALL translations are not perferct. NO translation is inspired. In every translation some meaning is lost through the translation work, no matter how competent the translators may have been. Man is a sinner. He is fallible. He makes mistakes. No Bible is perfect because man translates it, and it is man who makes the mistakes. That is why God puts the onus on us to "Study to show ourselves approved unto God…" There is nothing to be ashamed of in studying the Word of God.
God promised to preserve His Word. I believe that He has preserved His Word, but not in any translation. I am a missionary. I go to a foreign nation that does not speak English. What do I tell them about the Word of God. I tell them the truth. That God inspired the words of the prophets and apostles. We no longer have the original copies that they wrote. They did not last 2,000 plus years, but copies of them have. They have been translated many times into many different languages, and the Bible that you hold in your hand is the Word of God.
Have you ever heard of the KISS rule.
DHK

 

OK, he didnt have the originals. Did he have KJV? You just admitted that he had something that was inspired, and it was neither the originals nor the KJV.
I am not usually one to post to this debate, because frankly, we all seem to know where we stand without being interested in changing. But this just crossed my mind. </font>[/QUOTE] AVBunyan. Insert foot in mouth.

 

DHK, very nice. AVBunyan, you stand rebuked and corrected. Rebuked by the scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16 NIV
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

 

Amen, Sister Marcia -- Preach it!

Being KJVO does NOT make a hive of Super
Khristians.

The scripture you alude to in Ephesians 4
still DOES NOT say "one Bible".

 

If the original language texts from which the KJV was translated were the "final authority" for the KJV *translators* back in the 17th C., why shouldn't they be regarded as the "final authority" today?

 

--------------------------------------------------
If the original language texts from which the KJV was translated were the "final authority" for the KJV *translators* back in the 17th C., why shouldn't they be regarded as the "final authority" today?
--------------------------------------------------

Because I don't KNOW OR SPEAK HEBREW AND GREEK. God PROVIDED his INSPIRED WORDS in my OWN LANGUAGE. That is why, and it is EVIDENT.

By the way, what then do YOU consider to be scripture in your language? You apparently do not believe you have the scripture of God, but of man, as you believe man's fallible errors are in the scriptures, so therefore, they CANNOT BE THE WORD OF TRUTH. Are you telling me, I must now go to the Greek and Hebrew? OR that I must rely upon your interpretation/opinion of it says, or some other man's interpretation/opinion of what that is today, even though it is contrary to what God already provided me? I THINK NOT! This is one sure way of not only doubting the word of God in our language, but giving myself over to possible DECEPTION. Thanks but no thanks. I have the infallible and inspired scriptures in MY OWN LANGUAGE that I can hold with my hands, and read and understand with MY OWN EYES and HEART, that NO MAN TODAY WILL EVER TAKE AWAY FROM ME. And SHAME ON YOU for trying to DECIEVE THE NAIVE!

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle, noone on the MV side is trying to deceive anyone, but those on the side of the KJV intentionally try to misrepresent the MV's. When I hold the NIV or NASB in my hand, I hold the Word of God, trustworthy for rebuke, instruction and salvation. Again, you with your naivity are trying to cast doubt on others, and that's a shame and a sin.

AVL1984

 

If you study the Greek and Hebrew, then you KNOW if a translation is fairly accurate. No blind trust there.

 

Amen AVBunyan! Good post, and I agree, I'm not here to show how much I know, because that is very little. I'm here to let the people of God know that you can believe in a one book word of God and let the devil know that someone still believes in a inerrant, infallible, preserved, and inspired word of God. All glory goes to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

Tatertot, there's no winning any arguments here with Michele. She's hard line KJVO and any facts you present to her go in one ear and out the other.